Actually, I don't. The media does though. The Bush's weren't conservatives. Just Republicans. As are most Republicans today.

The closest Republican to a real conservative is Ron Paul, and the current Republican party hates him with a passion (because he's smarter than the rest of them put together and today's Republicans are a bunch of chickenhawks).

I hate Republicans every bit as much as I hate Democrats. One wants to ban this, the other wants to ban that.

Eng - Actually, it's not implying causation. It's taking a stab at the belief that more guns = more murder and shows that's silly and anti-gun nuts need to come up with another angle as their angle is simply wrong.

You really want to cut murder? I'll tell you how. Stop sending jobs overseas. Stop bringing in illegals, who are often criminals, and undercut family farmers and working class folks. Fix the economy. Employed people kill less. This is fact with stats after stats to back it up.

Guns are a small part in this. I'm a gun nut but I'll readily admit this.

Guns aren't the 2nd Amendment because of criminals. They're the 2nd Amendment to protect us from foreign invasion or tyranny. The fact that they give us an additional option against criminals to me is simply a bonus.

From a personal note, the best way to avoid being a victim of crime is to avoid "bad areas." Crime stats in America are skewed because most of the crime happens in "bad areas." America is a very safe country, except for the bad areas. I've lived in bad areas twice in my life and the best thing you can possibly do is do anything you can to move out of them, and when you want to see your friends and family, have them visit you instead of vice versa.

"Porforis" wrote:

Eng - Actually, it's not implying causation. It's taking a stab at the belief that more guns = more murder and shows that's silly and anti-gun nuts need to come up with another angle as their angle is simply wrong.

"zombieslayer" wrote:

While you make valid points.. the 2nd one you made a few assumptions. At a drive thru in the Dairy Queen right down the road from our apartment (the DQ that we frequent most), a woman was car-jacked at gunpoint. She was IN THE DRIVE THRU! I'm not yelling at you.. I'm stressing the fact that there were OTHER people around. I'll be damned if I'm going to have my wife sit in a drive thru without some sort of protection. Yes, having an assortment of pepper spray/'Guardian Angels' is nice. So is having a gun, legally.

"Formo" wrote:

Formo, I will refer you to what is known as availability heuristic. The mind is easily convinced of the importance of big shocking events. If you've heard of someone being carjacked at a drive through, that sticks in your memory. But this isn't to say that carjacking by gunpoint is the most common cause of motor vehicle theft.

http://www.lojack.com/knowledge/Documents/NICB-LoJackBrochure_FINAL.pdf 

From the National Insurance Crime Bureau. Isn't it interesting that the majority of theft prevention suggestions do not involve asking the vehicle owner to procure defensive weaponry, but are passive entry/driving prevention devices?

http://www.auto-theft.info/Statistics.htm , I stand by my hypothesis that it is the improvement in vehicle security and not the proliferation of defensive firearms.

I would have preferred to have a lot of free time to cite many sources just to get a better understanding of what the real statistics could be, but that's what I could find in a limited amount of time.

"Formo" wrote:

No law abiding citizen should be stopped from carrying a gun. In Wisconsin, we (the people of Wisconsin) voted to pass a concealed carry law. Our liberal govenor, (Doyle) kept vetoing it. Here THE PEOPLE said they wanted it, and this jerk won't allow it.
Fortunately for the state, he's quiting when his term is up. Maybe we can get someone elected that will do what the majority of Wisconsinites want, instead of what HE wants.

"Cheesey" wrote:

I don't like guns, yet I don't know where to stand on this one.

This summer I had a friend shot and killed in a mugging while he was walking back to his home in Riverwest (Milwaukee).

Two days ago a guy kicked the door in at my friends house, stole a plasma HD screen before my friend woke up. When he did wake up and try to stop the guy he almost got choked out but the robber got up and said "look man, I don't want to hurt you," left my friend on the floor of the basement and stole a PS3 before leaving.

In the first instance I hate guns. If the muggers didn't have a gun my friend would still be here today, however like Cheesey said if they had an intent to kill in the first place it's not like what weapon they had really mattered.

In the second instance I wish my friend had a gun so he could have shot the motherfucker that broke into his house, stole his property and almost killed him.

It's really a sticky subject and there's no real answer to it. The fact is that guns do exist and people are going to use them, so it seems you'll benefit more from owning one yourself. However I always consider the fact that any weapon you bring to an altercation can in some instances be used against you. Ultimately you just have to be careful and hope you get lucky that the assholes stay away from you.

"djcubez" wrote:

Don't hate guns. Hate the people that abuse their power.

"djcubez" wrote: