all_about_da_packers
15 years ago

AADP - It is not wrong and not stupid.

History shows us that the prevent D again and again fails. When teams get conservative, they lose.

"zombieslayer" wrote:




I'm not arguing against that at all. My point is that based on the entire game, given that Ben had abused our DBs the entire game, be it in man, zone, what have you.... well Dom is really limited with his options. Add to that the QB is a dude built like a truck, very difficult to bring down and capable of breaking tackles... well there is a reason Capers went Prevent.

To not even raise the possible reasons Capers employed the packages he did on the last drive, and just outright blame him for even attempting to run Prevent is ridiculous.

Yes, in hindsight Prevent was a mistake. Even then, it was so because of a missed assignment, not the scheme itself.

Heck, you have Mike Tomlin come out after the game and say that the 3 deep safety package Dom called is very tough to score on, and admit that any other place the ball was thrown would've meant a loss.... well I think that shows the problem of blaming Capers ... his play calling wasn't the problem. Players were in position to make plays. That they didn't should reflect poorly on execution.


We have a problem - our #1 CB is out for the season. Remember the Giants of '07? They had a very average secondary. They won the SB by beating the best O ever with a pass rush to compensate for their very average secondary.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Taking nothing away from their pass rush, but you have to acknowledge the play of CB Corey Webster and Safety Gibril Wilson. Those two guys stepped it up huge, and were a key part of the Giants success.
The NFL: Where Greg Jennings Happens.
zombieslayer
15 years ago

AADP - It is not wrong and not stupid.

History shows us that the prevent D again and again fails. When teams get conservative, they lose.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:




I'm not arguing against that at all. My point is that based on the entire game, given that Ben had abused our DBs the entire game, be it in man, zone, what have you.... well Dom is really limited with his options. Add to that the QB is a dude built like a truck, very difficult to bring down and capable of breaking tackles... well there is a reason Capers went Prevent.

To not even raise the possible reasons Capers employed the packages he did on the last drive, and just outright blame him for even attempting to run Prevent is ridiculous.

Yes, in hindsight Prevent was a mistake. Even then, it was so because of a missed assignment, not the scheme itself.

Heck, you have Mike Tomlin come out after the game and say that the 3 deep safety package Dom called is very tough to score on, and admit that any other place the ball was thrown would've meant a loss.... well I think that shows the problem of blaming Capers ... his play calling wasn't the problem. Players were in position to make plays. That they didn't should reflect poorly on execution.


We have a problem - our #1 CB is out for the season. Remember the Giants of '07? They had a very average secondary. They won the SB by beating the best O ever with a pass rush to compensate for their very average secondary.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Taking nothing away from their pass rush, but you have to acknowledge the play of CB Corey Webster and Safety Gibril Wilson. Those two guys stepped it up huge, and were a key part of the Giants success.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



AADP - The Giants secondary was average at best. Favre proved that in '07. They couldn't do anything against Favre. So Coughlin (or whomever made the adjustments) adjusted accordingly. During the SB, he ran so many blitz fakes and timed blitzes that the Pats OL was confused and Brady spent a lot of time on his ass.

Of course Mike Tomlin is going to say that. If your opponent is being stupid, you don't tell him he's being stupid. You let him believe he's being smart and continue to exploit his idiocy. If someone throws a grenade at you without pulling the pin, you don't hand him back his grenade, explain to him that he has to pull the pin out first, then let him throw it again.

And yes, it was a mistake. It's been a mistake this whole year and all of last year. Look, EVERYONE makes mistakes. The difference between intelligence and stupidity is intelligence, you learn from your mistakes. Stupidity, you keep making the same mistakes.
My man Donald Driver
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(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
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dyeah_gb
15 years ago
+1 for the great pictures and commentary. That play was a kick in the nuts. As a matter of fact hat whole last drive by the Steeleres makes me sick. Over the span of a decade the Packers have proven notorious at snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

Pack - Eagles NFC Championship
Pack - Giants NFC Championship

I just want them to win one of the next two and get this young team some playoff experience
The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool - R. Feynman
PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago

AADP - It is not wrong and not stupid.

History shows us that the prevent D again and again fails. When teams get conservative, they lose.

"all_about_da_packers" wrote:




I'm not arguing against that at all. My point is that based on the entire game, given that Ben had abused our DBs the entire game, be it in man, zone, what have you.... well Dom is really limited with his options. Add to that the QB is a dude built like a truck, very difficult to bring down and capable of breaking tackles... well there is a reason Capers went Prevent.

To not even raise the possible reasons Capers employed the packages he did on the last drive, and just outright blame him for even attempting to run Prevent is ridiculous.

Yes, in hindsight Prevent was a mistake. Even then, it was so because of a missed assignment, not the scheme itself.

Heck, you have Mike Tomlin come out after the game and say that the 3 deep safety package Dom called is very tough to score on, and admit that any other place the ball was thrown would've meant a loss.... well I think that shows the problem of blaming Capers ... his play calling wasn't the problem. Players were in position to make plays. That they didn't should reflect poorly on execution.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Doesn't that ring true for every play. If a run fails, it is because it was not executed correct, if a pass play fails same, and if a defense doesn't work it is because of execution. No coach draws up a play offensively or defensively as a failure. It is always execution.

But when our DBs have had a hard time, you don't give the QB more time by not rushing, you get after him. We sacked Ben 5 times in the game. That means we could get him, but in not 1 of those sacks were we rushing 3. Our defense has not been one that gets pressure by rushing even a base package. It gets pressure from being unpredictable, and on that drive, were were anything but that.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
gopackers08
15 years ago
First of all +1 for Rock. This is amazing analysis. The only issue I have with it is all the pictures made me throw up in my mouth again. I had to watch this game with a couple of Steelers fans and this last drive was pure unpleasantness to sit through.

Bottom line is why in the world are we playing prevent defense with 3 seconds left??? Dont play a zone scheme when all you have to cover is the end zone. Play man to man and safeties should be UP in coverage.

This game really eats me up because until now this was a game we lost every time LAST YEAR and a game that we won every time THIS YEAR. I just hope there is absolutely no hangover on the packers from this heartbreaker.

That being said the offense played really well and I hope to see more of that today! GO PACK GO!!!
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JerseyAl
15 years ago
If I can add one thing. In addition to what was pointed out in this post, one other factor needs to be mentioned. When Bell plants his feet to dive for the ball, they slip out from under him. Thus he doesn't get the extension he might have and comes up short in getting a hand on the ball. Watch his feet on the replay, and in the closeup picture above, you can see some turf being kicked up. I think without this slip, he gets a hand on the ball. Not that any of this matters, but just wanted to mention it...
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Rockmolder
15 years ago

If I can add one thing. In addition to what was pointed out in this post, one other factor needs to be mentioned. When Bell plants his feet to dive for the ball, they slip out from under him. Thus he doesn't get the extension he might have and comes up short in getting a hand on the ball. Watch his feet on the replay, and in the closeup picture above, you can see some turf being kicked up. I think without this slip, he gets a hand on the ball. Not that any of this matters, but just wanted to mention it...

"JerseyAl" wrote:



Nice. Didn't even notice that. Under the circumstances, Bell played that one perfectly, if you ask me. It might not've been his original assignment, but with no safety help anywhere close to him, this was all that he could do.
Zero2Cool
11 years ago
I think it was a good play.
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Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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