Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
15 years ago

Wade, I understand your point of view even though I've never been in that situation. I'm a college student myself and drinks at bars already cost enough. Of course a waitress/bartender seriously has to hate her job for me to not tip them. Delivery drivers are different because they usually only drive 5-10 blocks so I don't tip them that much.

"djcubez" wrote:



Honesty compels me to admit that I was a lousy tipper when drinking in college. I tipped good in restaurants (especially for attractive female waitresses), but I was horrible when I was just drinking. And I didn't have the excuse of cost: most expensive place I frequented sold Michelob pitchers for 3 bucks or less.

And I never stood on the other side of the bar until after I had graduated.

But now I pretty standard tip 20 percent when I'm drinking. Whether its happy hour Jack-and-coke at the dive two blocks from here (which I can afford), or top shelf single-malts/brandies when I'm at a hotel bar (which I really can't). I guess I just consider it part of the per-drink cost. If I'm not willing to pay $12 for a drink, I don't order a $10 shot.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
Bear in mind it's not entirely the bars' fault that your drinks cost so much. The problem is the state-sanctioned distribution monopoly that exists in most states. Bar owners have no choice but to buy their beverages from the designated alcohol distribution centers, which in some states (e.g., North Carolina) are in fact owned and operated by the state itself. It's not that they want to buy from these entities -- most bar owners will freely admit they could go down to the local grocery store and buy their beverages for a hell of a lot less than what they're paying. But they're at the mercy of the state.
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djcubez
15 years ago

Bear in mind it's not entirely the bars' fault that your drinks cost so much. The problem is the state-sanctioned distribution monopoly that exists in most states. Bar owners have no choice but to buy their beverages from the designated alcohol distribution centers, which in some states (e.g., North Carolina) are in fact owned and operated by the state itself. It's not that they want to buy from these entities -- most bar owners will freely admit they could go down to the local grocery store and buy their beverages for a hell of a lot less than what they're paying. But they're at the mercy of the state.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:


Hmm I never knew this. The price of drinks makes a lot more sense now. Do you think dive bars bypass this law and that's how they're able to afford selling cheap drinks? I was told once that most bars make their money back because of how inexpensive soda is.
Formo
  • Formo
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
15 years ago


I also hate the argument people have for delivery drivers, waitresses, etc.., about them earning most of their money from tips. They know what they got into when they started their jobs, if you don't get tipped a lot tough titty. I'm not saying I don't tip, I'm just saying you shouldn't have any set expectations. I also feel like this applies to other jobs as well. Police officers sign up for the job knowing they may be putting their lives on the line every day, but the moment one gets hurt or offended "BOOM" lawsuit, arrests, more jail time it's ridiculous. They put all these laws in to protect the police when the police should be protecting us. Same goes for football players. These rules now a days are bogus. Protecting the players and such. They play the most brutal, violent sport and expect to not come away with health problems? Ridiculous. You should know what you're getting into before you get into it instead of trying to blame the consequences on someone else. I'm not trying to be a hardass here or say we shouldn't help these people but seriously, get a grip.

"djcubez" wrote:



I don't know what delivery drivers make hourly. So I can't speak for them.. But being in the food industry, and knowing MANY waitresses.. (I even managed a few) I know the bull shit they had to endure. They deserve a tip, EVEN IF THEY DON'T GIVE THE BEST SERVICE. They made less than $3/hour not including tips. NOTE: This was in 2000-2003.. Things may have changed since then.

Yes, they knew before they started how much they'd be making. But that doesn't mean that they should serve on people, spending time filling up glasses with 3 different drinks, take food orders specifically and deal with multiple personalities through their time serving to get a 27 cent tip over an hour and a half.

Again, I refer you to the movie, "Waiting". =)

I'm a big tipper.

Having been a bartender when younger, and having hung out a good deal with other bartenders and wait staff, I know how important tips are, and how hard even mediocre ones have to work.

And how most people who come into bars and restaurants have no clue what all is involved. And how most "restauranteurs" assign way too many tables to individual waiters/waitresses. Next time you go into a restaurant, look at how many tables your waitress/waiter has to serve: the number should be, at most, 6 four-person tables.

If you think my six-table maximimum (actually, it should be closer to 4) sounds small, imagine yourself being the only server of a dinner party for 24. And not just a Thanksgiving dinner served family style, but one where each of the 24 is giving you individual instructions on every piece of the meal, asking you to refill their water and beer, three are trying to chat you up, realizing the goddamn salad station needs filling again and the dishwasher is falling behind and the goddamn bartender is four orders behind because he's dealing with an obnoxious drinker at the other end of the bar.

Yet virtually every restaurant in my area has its staff assigned to between 8 and 12 tables. Not surprisingly, the general level of service around here pretty much sucks.

I'm also a big tipper because I'm a member of one of the most insensitive and undertipping groups of restaurant patrons -- academics. No one complains more than academics about their pay (and don't get me started on how they invariably support liberal ideas that spend other people's money), and I'm betting no occupational group is worse at tipping.

And so I tend to overtip as a matter of habit. Even if the service is mediocre. It takes major incompetence of the sort that would lead me to seek out a manager to complain before I'll leave the miniscule tip that says "no, I didn't forget. you're so bad, that I'm intentionally leaving you a 1% tip."

So I fully understand the "large table" charge. When I've been with a group and it seems to me that the group has undertipped, I will even go back to the table and put some extra down.

All that said, however, did any restaurant I know try this sort of nonsense, they'd never see me inside their walls again. As others say, no one is entitled to a tip.

And, moreover, it really sounds like the restaurant owner is trying to collect a table charge under the masquerade of a "gratuity" or "service charge." I'd love to know how said restaurant distributes their tips. Don't assume that such a mandatory charge, whatever it might be called, ever finds its way to the person waiting the table in question. Don't assume that any tip added to a charge goes directly to your server.

If you want to charge for a big table, fine. If you want to consider those who walked out without paying it scum and put them on the "banned" list and refuse service, do that, too. If you want to tell your staff that from here on out said twits get put on "worst service imaginable" (trust me, there's a lot worse that having to wait an hour for wings in a busy place), do that.

But sue them for nonpayment of a gratuity? I don't care if they were the the table from hell. You're a moron. And you deserve to lose your business.

"Wade" wrote:



I couldn't have said that better.
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Formo
  • Formo
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
15 years ago
I failed to mention that my wife and I are good tippers. 20% is a bare minimum. We budget for it, and we tend to frequent a lot of the same restaurants. In fact, there's a few places in Eden Prairie that sees us coming in, and they let us choose where we sit (within reason) because us and our friends tend to tip really good. Not to mention we get REALLY good service. I think the best tip we've left was just over 50%.

My mother-in-law, though.. Is the worst I've seen. She's not only RUDE to the wait staff, but leaves HORRIBLE tips. On a $40 bill, she left a $2 tip (no, the service was more than fine).. And even then, she contemplated leaving less. I refuse to go out to eat with her unless I can talk to and apologize to the wait staff ahead of time for what they have to put up with.

Remember, kids. You reap what you sow.
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Cheesey
15 years ago
Formo....i have been in the same situation.
What you should do is slip the wait staff a few bucks on the way out.
Let your mother in law THINK all they got was $2.
Thats how i handled being with a bad tipper.
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Nonstopdrivel
15 years ago
I'm a generous tipper. I never tip less than 20%, unless I'm treated like shit (which happened in Massachusetts), and it's almost always 25%. If the server takes the time to get to know me as a person, or better yet, sits down with me for a while, the tip will rise to over 30%. It's not uncommon for me to tip waiters better than I tip waitresses, since I think overall, male waits give better service. It's probably no coincidence that five-star restaurants often feature exclusively male waitstaff.

But the moment a server thinks he or she "deserves" a tip simply because the base salary is so low, it's time for that person to find a new job, in my opinion. They take the job knowing full well the most they're guaranteed is minimum wage. If that isn't enough for them, they should seek a different avenue of employment. A good waiter knows that the customers don't "owe" him anything -- he sees the tip as his commission for doing a great job.

For the same reason, I strenuously object to the rationale that we should ban smoking to protect the health of bartenders. For one thing, the overwhelming majority of bartenders smoke. For another, they go into the job knowing that smoking goes with the territory. If they don't want smoke on the job, they shouldn't become bartenders.

No one forces anyone to be a server or bartender.
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Gravedigga
15 years ago
I used to work for tips. I never requested a tip or said anything to a customer who didn't tip. I'd feel embarrassed for myself. Some tips are good, some are bad. It all evens out, if you cant deal with that, you shouldn't be working that kind of job.
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A wise man once said
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You are weak, pathetic and immature..............I would have d
Formo
  • Formo
  • Veteran Member Topic Starter
15 years ago

Formo....i have been in the same situation.
What you should do is slip the wait staff a few bucks on the way out.
Let your mother in law THINK all they got was $2.
Thats how i handled being with a bad tipper.

"Cheesey" wrote:



Yeah, I'd do that, but in order to get my MIL pissed off, I purposefully throw a $5 bill on top of whatever she puts on the table for the tip. She tries to take it and give it back to me, or take her original tip.. but then I make a scene and embarrass her until she stops messing with the cash.. lol
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djcubez
15 years ago



But the moment a server thinks he or she "deserves" a tip simply because the base salary is so low, it's time for that person to find a new job, in my opinion. They take the job knowing full well the most they're guaranteed is minimum wage. If that isn't enough for them, they should seek a different avenue of employment. A good waiter knows that the customers don't "owe" him anything -- he sees the tip as his commission for doing a great job.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



You said what I meant better than I did. I was not trying to be a dick. I often tip at least 15% and I'm a relatively broke college student. Waitresses/waiters who feel they are owed a tip often give terrible service. A tip should be reflective of the wait staffs attitude and ability to serve as good as possible. If you can't handle someone who gives a bad tip get a different job.

For the same reason, I strenuously object to the rationale that we should ban smoking to protect the health of bartenders. For one thing, the overwhelming majority of bartenders smoke. For another, they go into the job knowing that smoking goes with the territory. If they don't want smoke on the job, they shouldn't become bartenders.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



I agree with you about the bartenders but I think it should be for the health of the bar patrons. What's so hard about taking a 3 minute break outside to smoke a cigarette, it's your addiction not mine and I don't need to suffer. Why should I have to endure large quantities of cigarette smoke whenever I want to get a drink at the bar? I don't agree with an outright ban because that severely limits a persons freedoms but there should be a certain level of respect administered to those of us who cherish our lungs. I've had multiple roommates who were smokers and they didn't have a problem taking a short break to smoke a cigarette outside. That or they would shut the door to their room and open a window. They have smoking lounges for that reason, to drink and smoke tobacco and have a good time.
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