Stevetarded
15 years ago

Thompson's main problem, in my opinion, is his failure to hit consistently with high picks. The bottom half of the draft is a crapshoot, so I don't care if 6th and 7th rounders aren't around in a few years from now.

If you look at his first and second round picks, however, we have this:

2005: Rodgers (elite starter), Collins (good starter), Murphy (injured, but always looked a bit small/slow to me).

2006: Hawk (adequate starter, massive dissapointment), Jennings (elite starter),

2007: Harrell (bust), Jackson (near bust, contributor but never looked close to starting a game)

2008: Nelson (adequate 3rd WR), Brohm (bust), Lee (injured/bust)

2009: Raji and Matthews - Too early to tell but both have great potential.

Putting aside the 2009 class we have:

2 elite starters (Rodgers, Jennings)
1 good starter (Collins)
1 adequate starter (Hawk) - Considering he was the 5th overall pick, he's a borderline bust.
2 contributors (Nelson, Jackson). Jackson has been a disappointment.
4 busts/injured (Murphy, Brohm, Harrell, Lee)

As far as I'm concerned, although first and second round picks aren't guaranteed, at the very least they should be contributing. It's unacceptable to have four first and second round picks bust in 4 seasons (not counting 2009). On top of that Hawk has been pretty awful for the 5th overall pick, but I guess he shows up every week, it could be worse. Finally, Brandon Jackson is doing a job a free agent could do - 3rd down back, he's never looked like an NFL starter. So, pessimistically, we have 4 busts and 2 disappointments/underachievers.

"masseyattack" wrote:



Well out of 4 of your busts I would say only 1 was expected to be a starter after they were drafted (Harrell). So even that isn't as bad as it seems.
blank
millertime
15 years ago
It just seems like we are high on TT's picks when they happen, but soon guys we love (Abdul Hodge, Aaron Rouse, Brian Brohm, Pat Lee) are getting beat out by newer or younger guys.

As far as the whole, this draft gave us ____ starters argument, I have to look at the calibur the actual player. Yes, Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Barbre, and Poppinga are starters for the Packers, but I am not sure how many other NFL teams they would start for. I think their starting status is more of a reflection of the lack of talent behind them than their action skill.

Barbre beat out Giacomini. Not exactly a stiff competition.
dd80forever
15 years ago

It just seems like we are high on Ted Thompson's picks when they happen, but soon guys we love (Abdul Hodge, Aaron Rouse, Brian Brohm, Pat Lee) are getting beat out by newer or younger guys.

As far as the whole, this draft gave us ____ starters argument, I have to look at the calibur the actual player. Yes, Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Barbre, and Poppinga are starters for the Packers, but I am not sure how many other NFL teams they would start for. I think their starting status is more of a reflection of the lack of talent behind them than their action skill.

Barbre beat out Giacomini. Not exactly a stiff competition.

"millertime" wrote:




You NAILED it!

Starters for GB because of the lack of talent on this team. These guys would likely not start on any other team. So when you label the "Starters" realize that with these "Starters" we went 6-10 and now are 2-2 and don't look very impressive.

I've argued over and over again with people. I remember Hodge was going to be a stud, so was Rouse. I remember Harrell was going to be the unpopular pick but the right one. I remember Colledge was going to be a pro-bowler. On and on and on. When I said I didn't think they would be I was discredited with just being a Ted Thompson hater.

Ted Thompson also doesn't seem to surround his already mediocre drafts with much FA help. You are a foool to think just because Ted Thompson is starting his guys that that in someway means he's building through the draft. Technically he is but what exactly is he building?
blank
Zero2Cool
15 years ago
Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Barbre, and Poppinga

Colledge and Spitz would be the only two that I could say would start on a dozen other teams. The other three, maybe four teams, tops. That's being generous.

I hope someday, a few of the loudest pessimistic pricks who only come around to be negative, grow up because it's really getting old.

There's too much preaching to the choir going on lately.

No one is happy with the 2 - 2 record, no body. We all want better, we all expect better and we all hope for better. Bottom line is, this is the 5th year and honestly, it's not looking like its going to get better. As others and I have said several times... you can bang your head against a wall 10 times, 100 times, 1,000 times, you're always going to get the same result, a headache. You have to try something DIFFERENT!

Ted - stop being a pussy in FA.
Mike - DEMAND better from your team.

Get it done, or get out town.


So now let's rehash everything again in the MIDDLE OF THE FUCKING season, about all of the downfalls from our regime, over, and over, and over again. Because that's the FAN thing to do. Why hope for the best? Why try to think positive? Well, I'll always root for the Packers no matter what, but like some have proven, they'd rather come pound their chest at the Packers failures. To those people, leave and don't come back until you can contribute like an adult.
UserPostedImage
porky88
15 years ago

after reading jus a few of them ... authors is bias against Ted and we need a comparison against other GM's during the same years.

"Zero2Cool" wrote:



Yeah I think it's a pretty poor analysis by someone who has been wanting to write that for along time. Now is the best oppurtunity because of the preseason hype the Packers generated. That hype has turned out to be the worse thing that could possibly ever happen to the Packers going into this year. People are mad. When I write my packer fix for the week, I think I'll go into a little more detail about that.

As far as Thompson's drafts go.

This years draft cannot be looked at. You just can't base a draft after one training camp and four regular season games. The article loses some creditability with that.

Driver didn't see the field much early as a 7th round pick and he's turned out to be one of the best Packers' receivers in team history. Probably No. 4 so it takes time with the draft. I recall someone saying Ron Wolf said something about batting 300 in the draft isn't bad. That's pretty good. I think I heard that on the radio (Havel?) though so I don't have a quote.

Thompson's first two drafts were solid in my view. Aaron Rodgers, Nick Collins, and Greg Jennings have been solid. Hawk is a solid football player. Not great, but solid. A four year starter out of a fourth round pick in Brady Poppinga is also very good. Colledge at guard isn't bad. He was also never drafted to be a tackle IMO. Spitz at center isn't bad either. That's a good nucleus to start your drafting with.

Since 06 though, it's gone down hill. It's now fair enough to suggest that players like Justin Harrell, Brandon Jackson, and Aaron Rouse are busts. That draft might be his worst one. Barbre is a guard playing tackle and for all the flash Bishop has given the Packers, he hasn't seen the field. Hall and Crosby are what they are. That would be late picks that are role players and that's fine, but as you can see, Thompson missed on three of his first four picks including his first and second picks that year. That draft is hurting the Packers and one of the reasons why GB is where they are as a team right now. It's also worth noting that James Jones has been regressing as a player.

Last years draft is interesting. Jordy Nelson looks good and I think he has a career ahead of him. Brohm and Lee are busts especially Brohm. I actually think that pick is his worse pick of all. Finley, however, could end up being one of Thompson's best picks. It's still a work in progress to judge that draft IMO, but the bigger picture is starting to set in and that's maybe the Packers shouldn't of traded down in that draft.

How different would Green Bay be this year if Thompson moved up for Sam Baker instead of Atlanta? Quite different. Those types of decisions hurt.

Back to this years. Saying Clay Matthews is going to be a beast after four games is as premature as saying B.J. Raji is going to do nothing in his career or is another Harrell. It's too soon to tell and quite frankly, that draft should just be set aside.

I don't think many GMs in today's league are great at the draft. Baltimore, Pittsburgh, New England, Indy, and San Diego. That's about it and I've liked what Jerry Reese has done in his short time with the Giants. Philly isn't bad. I may of left someone out.

Beyond that though, Thompson falls in line with just about the next group. Maybe the next best. He's above average to good IMO at the draft. You can win with his drafting. Being above average to good doesn't make him a good GM though. A good GM uses all his resources and that's his downfall.

The 07 draft + one free agent signing since then is the reason why this team is struggling. If that draft was like the two prior, this team is probably 3-1 and Packer fans feel as good as Bear fans right now. If Thompson signed maybe three or four guys over the course of that span, the same thing applies. Problem is he didn't.
PackFanWithTwins
15 years ago
For not caring what the later rounds produce, then compare to history. Here is Ron Wolfs draft history on 1st and 2nds with their time in GB.

92 T'Buck (3 years), Mark D'Onofrio (2 games)
93 George Teague (3 years), Wayne Simmons (4.5 years)
94 Aaron Taylor (3 years),
95 Craig Newsome (4 years)
96 John Michels (2 years), Derrick Mayes (3 years)
97 Ross Verba (4 years), Darren Sharper (8 years)
98 Vonnie Holliday (5 years),
99 Antoine Edwards(5 years), Fred Vinson (1 year)
00 Bubba Franks (8 years), Chad Clifton (9 years and counting)

By pick comparison IMO Wolf was no better than Ted. Probably worse. But Ron did make some nice trades.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
Zero2Cool
15 years ago

He's above average to good IMO at the draft. You can win with his drafting. Being above average to good doesn't make him a good GM though. A good GM uses all his resources and that's his downfall.

"porky88" wrote:



I am in full agreement. Good drafter, poor damn near everything else.
UserPostedImage
Felipe7777777
15 years ago
haha i agree that was pretty Bias to begin with lol he's been solid but i wouldnt say GREAT, but very good in terms of picks...
blank
millertime
15 years ago
I agree with most of your post. One thing we as Packer fans take for granted is that we almost always have a competitive team. Think about what it must be like to be a Browns, Raiders, 49er (until now), and Bills fan. Most these fans would trade anything for a playoff appearance.

[quote="Zero2Cool"]A four year starter out of a fourth round pick in Brady Poppinga is also very good. Colledge at guard isn't bad. He was also never drafted to be a tackle IMO. Spitz at center isn't bad either. That's a good nucleus to start your drafting with.

"porky88" wrote:



THe thing I can't forgive Ted Thompson for is not trying to upgrade these average players. Take Poppinga, the guy has been an below average to adequate starter for what... like 4 years? Really? I feel like he exemplifies the problem with TT. He settles with average (Poppinga, Colledge, Spitz, etc) instead of overpaying (which you have to do) for proven talent or moving up in the draft. The sad part is that his fear of risks is actually a bigger threat to our team. We have little to no depth along the trenches because all of our backups are undrafted FAs or late round picks.

He's built a good team, but a couple of solid free agents on the o-line would turn us into a contender. It hard to argue that the Jets or Vikings overpayed for Faneca and Hutchinson. The arrival of both men transformed those teams running game. Could you imagine what A-Rod and our WRs could do if they had some time?

There are some guys that you just need to go after. The Eagles traded a first for Jason Peters and signed Stacy Andrews. I feel like they're one of the better teams at mixing the draft, free agency, and trading to always field a competitive squad. They always seem to nab the guy who slips and turn him into a starter: DeSean Jackson, Maclin, Winston Justice, Max Jean-Gilles etc. Ted Thompson is only utilizing one of the three and it puts us at a disadvantage.
buckeyepackfan
15 years ago

For not caring what the later rounds produce, then compare to history. Here is Ron Wolfs draft history on 1st and 2nds with their time in GB.

92 T'Buck (3 years), Mark D'Onofrio (2 games)
93 George Teague (3 years), Wayne Simmons (4.5 years)
94 Aaron Taylor (3 years),
95 Craig Newsome (4 years)
96 John Michels (2 years), Derrick Mayes (3 years)
97 Ross Verba (4 years), Darren Sharper (8 years)
98 Vonnie Holliday (5 years),
99 Antoine Edwards(5 years), Fred Vinson (1 year)
00 Bubba Franks (8 years), Chad Clifton (9 years and counting)

By pick comparison IMO Wolf was no better than Ted. Probably worse. But Ron did make some nice trades.

"PackFanWithTwins" wrote:




Looking at that list, a good number of those players were either traded, released or left via FA's and went on and started with some starring for other teams. Hell Holiliday and Sharper are still playing at a high level.

Not to many NFL busts on that list.
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
Fan Shout
Mucky Tundra (15m) : Getting help would have been nice, but helping ourselves should always be the plan
beast (34m) : Too bad Seahawks couldn't beat Vikings
bboystyle (48m) : We just need to win Monday night and were in
Mucky Tundra (3h) : Or ties, but let's be real here
Mucky Tundra (3h) : Other scenario was Falcons+Rams losses
Mucky Tundra (4h) : Needed a Falcons loss for a Seahawk loss to clinch
buckeyepackfan (4h) : Am I wring in saying if Tge Vikings beat The Seahawks, The Packers clinch?
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : Agreed; you stinks
Zero2Cool (21-Dec) : I'm not beating anyone. I stinks.
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : rough injury for tank dell. guy can't catch abreak
beast (21-Dec) : So far the college playoffs have sucked... One team absolutely dominates the other
beast (21-Dec) : Well even if you weren't positive towards a guy, you wouldn't nessarily want to tell the media that (if they don't know about it)
Martha Careful (21-Dec) : I think MLF want Love to look past the end half issues, and feel good about his play. Our coaches generally keep a very positive tone.
beast (21-Dec) : I think a great running game will do that for most QBs
packerfanoutwest (21-Dec) : Coach Matt LaFleur has said quarterback Jordan Love is playing the best football of his career.
beast (21-Dec) : Oh, that's how you keep beating buckeye, with cheating
Zero2Cool (20-Dec) : There is a rule that if your name starts with 'b' you lose 15 points. Hey, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them!
wpr (20-Dec) : and then there is Beast. Running away with it all.
beast (20-Dec) : As of tonight, 3 way tie for 2nd in Pick'em, that battle is interesting!
beast (20-Dec) : Lions vs Vikings could be the main last game as it could determine division winners or #1 vs #2 seed
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : Or if KC needs to win for the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : Right now it looks like the only prime worthy games are Det-Minny and KC-Denver (if Denver can clinch a wild card spot)
Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : The entirety of week 18 being listed as flex is weird
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Matt LaFleur today says unequivocally "Ted Thompson had nothing to do with the drafting of Jordan Love."
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Apparently, the editing is what pieces comments together. That Ted thing ... fake news.
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : LaFleur "opportunity that Ted Thompson thought was too good to pass up"
Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Jordan Love pick was Ted Thompson's idea.
Mucky Tundra (19-Dec) : Kyle Shanahan on signing De'Vondre Campbell as a FA last offseason: “We obviously made a mistake.”
packerfanoutwest (19-Dec) : Alexander’s last season with GB
Martha Careful (18-Dec) : if I were a professional athlete, I would probably look to see who the agent is for Kirk Cousins and then use him
beast (18-Dec) : $100 million fully guaranteed Kirk Cousins gets benched for rookie
Mucky Tundra (18-Dec) : a lower case b
Mucky Tundra (18-Dec) : The real lie is how beast capitalized his name in his message while it's normally spelled with
packerfanoutwest (18-Dec) : haha that's a lie
beast (17-Dec) : Despite what lies other might tell, Beast didn't hate the Winter Warnings, it felt refreshing to Beast for some reason.
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : whiteout uniforms in general are pretty lame and weak. NFL greed at it's worst
Martha Careful (17-Dec) : The Viking uniforms, the whiteout uniforms specifically absolutely suck
beast (17-Dec) : Thanks Zero2Cool, looks a lot better now
beast (17-Dec) : Seems like someone has a crush on me, can't stop talking about me
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : Should be gooder now. The forum default theme went to goofy land.
Zero2Cool (17-Dec) : What the hell
packerfanoutwest (17-Dec) : yeah beast hates the Winter Warning Unies
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Okay I'm glad to know it's not just something happening to me lol
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Zero, did you copy the Packers uniforms from last night and white out the board?
beast (16-Dec) : Oh crap, is the board going to the Winter Warning Uniforms too?!? It's all white on white right now!
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : WR Odell Beckham Jr is officially a free agent after clearing waivers.
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : Packers are 6th in sacks.
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : RB David Montgomery will undergo season-ending knee surgery.
Mucky Tundra (16-Dec) : Dan Campbell on onside kick with 12 minutes left: In hindsight, wish I didn’t do that
Zero2Cool (16-Dec) : They have that whole 12th man thing so ...
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
6m / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

4h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

22-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / packerfanoutwest

19-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

19-Dec / Random Babble / Zero2Cool

18-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

17-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

17-Dec / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Martha Careful

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

16-Dec / Feedback, Suggestions and Issues / Mucky Tundra

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

16-Dec / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.