Zero2Cool
a year ago
This can't be real, is it? I don't follow news so don't be an ass. I just see random occasional things on Tweeter. And this? I mean, actually saying they are coming for our children? Who is coming? And why? 

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Zero2Cool
a year ago
Okay, it sounds like one creepy person is saying 'we are coming for your children' but the rest are saying 'we are not going shopping'. I really do not understand why they are not going shopping.

Maybe this community must announce everything? I'm Gay! I'm Trans! I'm not going shopping! Perhaps they just weren't hugged enough as kids!!

I'm not serious about that last blurb, but I'm willing to bet some are gonna say it's an attention seeking thing and then try to psychoanalyze it by saying they weren't loved enough as children. Or something like that.
 
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Cheesey
a year ago
They ARE coming for the children.
JUST look around you. You'd have to be blind not to see it. All these "pride" parades and festivals. All the big companies pushing trans/gay agenda.
I watched a 1960s gay program (I believe it was on PBS) and they were interviewing gay men. They said they just wanted to be left alone, that it wasn't like they were pushing to be allowed to marry of have children. 
Now look at today. They know that  if they can indoctrinate the children into believing that gay/trans is "normal" they will control future generations. And if a child in school dares to go against the crowd, they will be abused by the other kids.  Just like kids now are bullied if they believe in creation verses evolution. (That's what happened to me personally way back when). 
Go after the young and impressionable, and it won't matter what they are taught by their parents. They will "buckle under" to not be unaccepted by their classmates. 
The one guy that said they are coming after the children was just being stupid enough to say it out loud .
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Zero2Cool
a year ago

I watched a 1960s gay program (I believe it was on PBS) and they were interviewing gay men. They said they just wanted to be left alone, that it wasn't like they were pushing to be allowed to marry of have children. 

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



This is quite true. I have some family in the category of who I love doesn't define me, just leave me be and love whom I wish. 

It kind of seems some are some in that community where their "sexual orientation" first, human being second. I was talking to a co-worker and she was telling me about her daughter. First thing she said was "she's gay" and I kind of shrugged like who cares, tell me your story. Whom she loves played zero part in the story. 

I dunno. I try not to be a bigot, but some things just do not make sense to me.
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Cheesey
a year ago
I don't care what people want to do in their own homes. But trying to force their actions on everyone else, that's where it's wrong.  And as I said, they are trying to indoctrinate the children.
Young impressionable minds. It's easier to get to them then mature adult minds.
Look at the backlash that Bud Light and Target stores have gone through because of their choice to side with the 10 percent (or less percent).
Political correctness is underming the very foundation of our country. 
AND why don't we have a "straight pride" month? With STRAIGHT PARADES and festivals? 
I don't know why anyone should be proud of their sexual choices. What you do in your life, how you treat others, your selflessness, those should be things to be proud of.  Not who you sleep with.   
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earthquake
a year ago

Okay, it sounds like one creepy person is saying 'we are coming for your children' but the rest are saying 'we are not going shopping'. I really do not understand why they are not going shopping.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Probably just someone trolling. "they're trying to convert your kids!" is a frequent pearl-clutching thing you'll see on the usual fear-mongering news shows.

The shopping bit refers to anti-consumerism sentiment in this particular pride parade in London. Individuals are concerned that large corporations are participating in pride merely as a marketing event, so the shopping chant is their effort to tell these companies to pound sand.


Maybe this community must announce everything? I'm Gay! I'm Trans! I'm not going shopping! Perhaps they just weren't hugged enough as kids!!

I'm not serious about that last blurb, but I'm willing to bet some are gonna say it's an attention seeking thing and then try to psychoanalyze it by saying they weren't loved enough as children. Or something like that.
 



Alan mentioned the 1960s, a rather different time when being gay was very much not socially acceptable, often resulting in assault, murder, and in some cases criminal prosecution or worse. 1960 was only 8 years after Alan Turing, a man who was instrumental in breaking Nazi codes and winning the war, was chemically castrated due to horrifically draconian laws. He committed suicide two years later. It's not remotely surprising that most non-straight people wanted to be left alone. It was not a fun time to be anything other than straight and white in those days.

The point of being vocal about gayness (and LGBTQetc) is to bring visibility to and normalize people that may be different than you. Of course, not everyone wants to yell about it in the streets or have you know their personal business. I would say that most are vocal because they think it is necessary for progress, not because it's something they enjoy doing - I'm sure they would love nothing more than for queerness to be so commonplace and mundane as to be not worth mentioning. Unfortunately, it is not, so awareness is critical in making sure that people who are not otherwise exposed to queerness understand that gay people, trans people, etc, are not freaks that should only be allowed on the fringes of society. They're your friends, family, children, coworkers, bartenders, tax preparers, police, etc. 

Whether intentional or not, demanding that these people keep it to themselves actively oppresses them and denies their very existence. Societal pressures to be straight, or if not, to keep it to yourself, can be extremely damaging. For example, these pressures lead to significantly higher rates - more than 4x - of suicide in teens and young adults . Doing something as simple as acknowledging who they are can drastically reduce these risks.

Let's look at this another way, if I was to say, "Why can't Christians leave their cross at home? or "Why can't Jews take off their yarmulke when in public? Why do they have to tell everyone about their beliefs? They should keep it to themselves." You might inform me that I am being hateful and discriminatory. And you would be right.
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Cheesey
a year ago
You can't compare wearing a cross the same as  pushing your sexual agenda on children in public schools. Trying to normalize and indoctrinate children.
AND that's what is going on. 
If they can push that as acceptable, then why can't they teach creationism as a possibility in public schools? 
Oh...I know...."separation if church and state", which was NEVER intended to keep church/God out of schools, it was ONLY meant to keep the state out of people's choice of religion. But it's been twisted by those to mean something else completely. 
like I've said before, I don't hate gay people. I just don't agree with what they do. I'm a Christian, and believe in the Bible. I know some hate me for that reason. And those that do, are they any better then anyone that hates others for different reasons? 
I may disagree with some people on this site, but I honestly don't hate anyone here. 

 
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earthquake
a year ago

I may disagree with some people on this site, but I honestly don't hate anyone here.



Alan, just to make it clear, I do not hate you or anyone else on this site. Sometimes I am annoyed by people here, as I am sure I frequently annoy others who do not share my views or perspective. Sometimes I feel embarrassed for you, due to what I consider to be rather ignorant views - and I am sure that you feel the same about me, but that's the extent of it. I don't hate anyone here - if I did I would stop coming to this website. At this point, it's more like a dysfunctional family sort of situation, which is oddly comforting, as that's what my real family is most of the time.

Going a little further, I do not begrudge you for being Christian. I respect your right to believe in whatever religion you choose and honestly, this is one of the few rights that I think are worthy of upholding with arms if necessary. I should make this clear that this is the right to religious freedom, and not specifically something I think is reserved for Christianity. 

Anyway, I'm going to try not to get into an argument with you. My post was primarily responding to Kevin's observations and questions, as I feel he was genuinely curious about these topics and having numerous queer family members and friends, I thought I might be able to provide a unique perspective.
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earthquake
a year ago
Here’s what I hope to be a nuanced take on a complex topic. Transsexuality! Woohoo let’s get this fun and completely not uncomfortable topic rolling.

My younger cousin (college age) was born as a woman, identifies more as a man and these days prefers to be called they. Knowing them as a girl since they were born, this is a little awkward, but in an effort to acknowledge who they consider themselves to be I oblige and support them. I still mess up the pronouns sometimes though (many times while writing this). Some in my family, including some they looked up to and care for very much, have disowned them. The tense is important there - they no longer look up to them but still care for them, even if they do not reciprocate.

They have considered having gender-affirming surgery, but have not yet gone under the knife. I am not sure if they still plan to do so - bringing the topic up makes me uncomfortable, so I sheepishly avoid it. A few years back when we discussed it it was mostly a matter of money - apparently, it is rather expensive and their financial situation is poor. Shifting from she to he to they is something that happened over time so I am not sure if surgery is still in the cards. They will graduate with an in-demand engineering degree soon, so the financial situation may be moot sooner rather than later.

Personally? I hope they do not go through with it. It seems like something that comes with a high chance of regret not to mention the general risks of surgery. Post-op transexuals generally have more societal barriers to contend with as well, it's easier in some sense to live as a tom-boy than a trans man. It causes me a great deal of distress whenever I think about it.

On the other hand, I have no idea what it is like to feel as if I were born into a body that does not feel familiar to me - that feels foreign. Your own body, a place that you are not comfortable in? To me this is inconceivable - only through empathy can I attempt to imagine how difficult this would make every waking moment of my life. In any case, I lack the perspective and personal experience to have an informed opinion on what is best. If this is something that is safe to do and will help them live a better, happier life, I am all for it - I am not convinced this is the case but it could be - if they go forward with it I really hope this is the case. At the end of the day, whether they do it or not is none of my business - free will and all of that being what it is, it simply is not my choice to make.

As a 38-year-old man who perhaps 10 years ago would have found the topic, well, for the lack of a better word, rather icky. I can only imagine how difficult it is for the older generations to deal with or comprehend this stuff. It must seem absolutely nuts. That said, I feel like society, as it did with gayness 10-20 years ago, is gradually coming to terms with transsexuality, which is a good thing in my view.

In an attempt to wrap this up into an on-topic and coherent thought: understanding, awareness, and advocation are extremely important. Without open discussion and personal involvement, these people will continue to be ostracized and shunned by their loved ones and society as a whole. Transexuals are at an even higher risk of homelessness, attack, abuse, suicide, etc, than gay people as they are more likely to be disowned by their family and friends and removed from their support system. I think the truly kind thing to do is consider their well-being first, and my own personal beliefs and opinions second, or 99th, or whatever. I will do whatever I am able to help make sure this person who I care deeply about doesn’t feel so alone and unwelcome to the point that they end their life.

Anyway, I find these sorts of personal stories and interactions with real people much more meaningful than news articles or video clips. So I hope if nothing else this this helped bring a new perspective to whoever ends up reading it.
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Zero2Cool
a year ago
One of my girls has been active in the LGBTQ community. We've went rounds numerous times because I don't agree with changing your genital's (more lack of confidence in our doctors than anything to be frank), but also would never condemn anyone or tell someone they cannot do it. I quantify this statement saying I'm a man who was born male and is comfortable as man, so I can't speak about someone born female who believes they should be male or vice versa. I feel that is their prerogative. 

What does bother me is how the schools push it. I've seen it in the High School in the district I live in and it's made me a bit uncomfortable. I do not like the schools doing things with my kids that can be potentially life altering and without my knowledge. That feels wrong to me. If they skip school, it's on the parents. If they break the law, the parents are held responsible. And on and on. So, if I am always responsible for my child, should I be kept in the dark about things pertaining directly to them? 

The way our High School handled something made me feel like I was responsible for a car that I wasn't driving and they were telling the occupants "it's okay to speed, it's okay to change lanes whenever you want-no signal needed, it's okay not to wear safety belt because you are not comfortable with those things" and yet when that child does something wrong. Who's on the chopping block being talked down to like he's a negligent parent?

This view is difficult because I know some parents are just complete assholes to their kids. So I get why the school provides that option. So, when it all comes down to it, ti's more of a beef between my child and myself than the school. I just don't like that the school enables it and provides an avenue of descension. 

like I've said before, I don't hate gay people. I just don't agree with what they do. I'm a Christian, and believe in the Bible. I know some hate me for that reason. And those that do, are they any better then anyone that hates others for different reasons? 
I may disagree with some people on this site, but I honestly don't hate anyone here.  

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



I can't imagine anyone hating you Alan. Maybe some disagree strongly with some things you say, but that is what is beautiful about a forum. The difference of ideas, the difference of thoughts. I believe some constructive conflict is a GOOD thing. There are uncomfortable conversations that I believe yield a positive outcome. It's just another way we can grow. 

 
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