Packers and 1st round drafting

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

a year ago

You would think with the first round drafting investment, this team would have dominant defensive, lol.

That's what six offensive guys since '99 draft in the first round?

2 QB
1 TE
1 WR
2 OL
5 LB
7 DB
8 DL

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nerdmann
Premier Member

a year ago

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

People keep saying we don't have dominant defense. Granted, we slumped a bit last year. Even so, we picked up again towards the end of the season. Remember the previous season? Defense were absolute closers. Remember how Rasul stole that game against the Cardinals?

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

a year ago

Originally Posted by: nerdmann

Packers didn't play Cardinals last season, that was the 2021 season. And Rasul Douglas was a free agent pick up, not a first round draft pick by the Packers.

Maybe that is what you meant by previous season, as in previous to last season, which I think you should specify the season so it's clear for those of us (e.g. me) who have troubles with associating one sentence off another. 🙂

Regarding 2022 season. The Packers defense gave up 192 points in the first nine games and 183 in the final 8 games. Correct, those are the points scored against the Packers. Either way, that really wasn't good.

Front Nine - 21.3 per game scored against us.
Back Eight - 22.8 per game scored against us.

Total Yards 17th
Rushing Yards 26th
Passing Yards 6th (not bad!)
Interception rate (2nd)

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beast
Select Member

a year ago

We always hear about the 1st round, but Gute has a pattern in the first four rounds.

1st round: Defense
2nd, 3rd and 4th round: Offense

The exceptions since Gute started (2018) being
2018 CB Jackson (bust)
2018 ILB Burks (STer)
2020 QB Love
2023 DL Wooden

So yeah defense is getting 1st rounders, but the offense is getting the quantity and when you consider drafts high rate of busts, quantity might be better than straight quality as even the first rounders might be busts.

From 2019 to 2022 (because we haven't seen the 2023 Packers team results yet), in the top 4 rounds, the Packers have drafted only 5 defensive players all of them coming from the 1st round. Meanwhile drafting 12 offensive players. Yes first rounders are supposed to be better, but injuries happened and the draft has a very high bust or disappointed factor where quantity matters just as much as quality).

Bit also let's look at the 1st round defenders vs 2nd round offense.

2022: ILB Walker & DL Wyatt vs WR Watson
2021: CB Stokes vs C Myers
2020: Both offensive
2019: OLB Gary & S Savage vs OG Jenkins
2018: Both defensive

I believe one could argue the 2nd round offensive players have out played some of the 1st round defenders (so far).

I would be interested in hearing if this pattern is somewhat planned or completely random.

beast
Select Member

a year ago

That's what six offensive guys since '99 draft in the first round?

2 QB
1 TE
1 WR
2 OL
5 LB
7 DB
8 DL

image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

How is Gary a DE but Van Ness an OLB? If you count the Edge Rushers as DE then Matthews and Van Ness should be DEs.

Seems like the Packers have drafted 10 defensive front guys and they weren't great at selecting them. Though seems like no GM is perfect and they all have their positions they're better or worse at drafting.

Martha Careful
Member

a year ago

Zero 2Cool responding to Nerdmann

Originally Posted by: nerdmann
People keep saying we don't have dominant defense. Granted, we slumped a bit last year. Even so, we picked up again towards the end of the season. Remember the previous season? Defense were absolute closers. Remember how Rasul stole that game against the Cardinals?

Zero2Cool replied "Packers didn't play Cardinals last season, that was the 2021 season. And Rasul Douglas was a free agent pick up, not a first round draft pick by the Packers."

Take it easy on Nerdmann. He has all recently shared with us all that he is an expert on hallucinogens/psychedelics, and perhaps when he posts he is being effected by those things. Indeed this would explain many things 🤣

Moreover:

I think the reason people are so critical of Joe Barry is that we see a lot of talent there which has been utilized in such a way that does not optimize their effectiveness. The easiest example is having the CBs play 8 yards off slot and wide-outs on 3rd & 2 situations. Other examples are not consistently taking away the opponents best weapon (as New England and other teams do) such as Jefferson of the Vikings. (Yes, I am aware we did that on the last Vikings game...so why not all the time?!) Maybe the talent IS there and we are just not coaching them up.
Re Stokes, I am going to withhold judgement here. A strong rookie year, then the guy was banged up. I think he will turn out to be very strong, maybe not all world, but really good.
If we are really honest about it, there is not much difference between low 1st and high 2nd round picks. I know we get the benefit of the 5th year option with first rounders, but perhaps the second round guys (like Avis) try harder, with less of a sense of entitlement so they might work out better.

Go Packers!!!!

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

a year ago

Originally Posted by: beast

It's what was reported at the time I updated the draft pick in the database. I don't go back and update them.

nerdmann
Premier Member

a year ago

Zero 2Cool responding to NerdmannTake it easy on Nerdmann. He has all recently shared with us all that he is an expert on hallucinogens/psychedelics, and perhaps when he posts he is being effected by those things. Indeed this would explain many things 🤣

Moreover:

I think the reason people are so critical of Joe Barry is that we see a lot of talent there which has been utilized in such a way that does not optimize their effectiveness. The easiest example is having the CBs play 8 yards off slot and wide-outs on 3rd & 2 situations. Other examples are not consistently taking away the opponents best weapon (as New England and other teams do) such as Jefferson of the Vikings. (Yes, I am aware we did that on the last Vikings game...so why not all the time?!) Maybe the talent IS there and we are just not coaching them up.
Re Stokes, I am going to withhold judgement here. A strong rookie year, then the guy was banged up. I think he will turn out to be very strong, maybe not all world, but really good.
If we are really honest about it, there is not much difference between low 1st and high 2nd round picks. I know we get the benefit of the 5th year option with first rounders, but perhaps the second round guys (like Avis) try harder, with less of a sense of entitlement so they might work out better.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful

This defense has been clutch at times. I think the defenses prime ingredient is when Matt is telling Barry what to do. t'm not suggesting that Barry is necessarily that dumb, but that they have a relationship where Joe is open to feedback in a way that many DCs are or would not be.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

beast
Select Member

a year ago

I'm not sure Joe Barry is natural more open to it than average, but more, you are f'n screwing up, you need to do this, or I'll find someone that will ...

Not to suggest it was stated like that, but in easy to fire positions, you listen to your boss or you're out. And Barry might not ever get a 4th attempt at DC if he's quickly kicked out of this one.

Martha Careful
Member

a year ago

#10

Beast guessed what MLF may have said to Joe Barry

you are f'n screwing up, you need to do this, or I'll find someone that will ...
Not to suggest it was stated like that... I think the defenses prime ingredient is when Matt is telling Barry what to do.

I think it was probably stated very close to that. This is football, not the United Nations. I don't think Barry is dumb, simply way to risk averse. And I believe your suggestion that they are at their best when MLF puts the hammer down is spot on.

Go Packers!!!!

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Zero2Cool (2m) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.

beast (2m) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games

beast (3m) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality

beast (3m) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs

Zero2Cool (5m) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread

Zero2Cool (7m) : I literally just said it.

packerfanoutwest (11m) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't

Zero2Cool (13m) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.

Zero2Cool (13m) : Yes, if they win one of three, they are lock. If they lose out, they can be eliminated.

packerfanoutwest (23m) : as I just said,,gtheyh are in no matter what

Zero2Cool (28m) : Packers should get in. I just hope it's not 7th seed. Feels dirty.

packerfanoutwest (31m) : If packers lose out, no matter what, they are in

packerfanoutwest (31m) : both teams can not male the playoffs....falcon hold the tie breaker

packerfanoutwest (33m) : if bucs win out they win their division

beast (42m) : Fine, Buccaneers and Falcons can get ahead of us

packerfanoutwest (48m) : falcons are already ahead of us

beast (52m) : Packers will get in

beast (52m) : If Packers lose the rest of their games and Falcons win the rest of theirs, they could pass us... but not gonna happen

packerfanoutwest (58m) : they still are in the playoffs

packerfanoutwest (58m) : If Packers lose the remaining games,,,,at 10-7

Zero2Cool (2h) : We can say it. We don't play.

Mucky Tundra (3h) : But to say they are in is looking past the Saints

Mucky Tundra (3h) : That said, their odds are very favorable with a >99% chance of making the playoffs entering this week's games

Mucky Tundra (3h) : Packers are not in and have not clinched a playoff spot.

buckeyepackfan (4h) : Packers are in, they need to keep winning to improve their seed#.

Mucky Tundra (13h) : Getting help would have been nice, but helping ourselves should always be the plan

beast (13h) : Too bad Seahawks couldn't beat Vikings

bboystyle (14h) : We just need to win Monday night and were in

Mucky Tundra (17h) : Or ties, but let's be real here

Mucky Tundra (17h) : Other scenario was Falcons+Rams losses

Mucky Tundra (17h) : Needed a Falcons loss for a Seahawk loss to clinch

buckeyepackfan (17h) : Am I wring in saying if Tge Vikings beat The Seahawks, The Packers clinch?

Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : Agreed; you stinks

Zero2Cool (21-Dec) : I'm not beating anyone. I stinks.

Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : rough injury for tank dell. guy can't catch abreak

beast (21-Dec) : So far the college playoffs have sucked... One team absolutely dominates the other

beast (21-Dec) : Well even if you weren't positive towards a guy, you wouldn't nessarily want to tell the media that (if they don't know about it)

Martha Careful (21-Dec) : I think MLF want Love to look past the end half issues, and feel good about his play. Our coaches generally keep a very positive tone.

beast (21-Dec) : I think a great running game will do that for most QBs

packerfanoutwest (21-Dec) : Coach Matt LaFleur has said quarterback Jordan Love is playing the best football of his career.

beast (21-Dec) : Oh, that's how you keep beating buckeye, with cheating

Zero2Cool (20-Dec) : There is a rule that if your name starts with 'b' you lose 15 points. Hey, I don't make the rules, I just enforce them!

wpr (20-Dec) : and then there is Beast. Running away with it all.

beast (20-Dec) : As of tonight, 3 way tie for 2nd in Pick'em, that battle is interesting!

beast (20-Dec) : Lions vs Vikings could be the main last game as it could determine division winners or #1 vs #2 seed

Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : Or if KC needs to win for the #1 seed

Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : Right now it looks like the only prime worthy games are Det-Minny and KC-Denver (if Denver can clinch a wild card spot)

Mucky Tundra (20-Dec) : The entirety of week 18 being listed as flex is weird

Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Matt LaFleur today says unequivocally "Ted Thompson had nothing to do with the drafting of Jordan Love."

Zero2Cool (19-Dec) : Apparently, the editing is what pieces comments together. That Ted thing ... fake news.

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