Packers and 1st round drafting

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

a year ago

You would think with the first round drafting investment, this team would have dominant defensive, lol.

That's what six offensive guys since '99 draft in the first round?

2 QB
1 TE
1 WR
2 OL
5 LB
7 DB
8 DL

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nerdmann
Premier Member

a year ago

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

People keep saying we don't have dominant defense. Granted, we slumped a bit last year. Even so, we picked up again towards the end of the season. Remember the previous season? Defense were absolute closers. Remember how Rasul stole that game against the Cardinals?

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

a year ago

Originally Posted by: nerdmann

Packers didn't play Cardinals last season, that was the 2021 season. And Rasul Douglas was a free agent pick up, not a first round draft pick by the Packers.

Maybe that is what you meant by previous season, as in previous to last season, which I think you should specify the season so it's clear for those of us (e.g. me) who have troubles with associating one sentence off another. 🙂

Regarding 2022 season. The Packers defense gave up 192 points in the first nine games and 183 in the final 8 games. Correct, those are the points scored against the Packers. Either way, that really wasn't good.

Front Nine - 21.3 per game scored against us.
Back Eight - 22.8 per game scored against us.

Total Yards 17th
Rushing Yards 26th
Passing Yards 6th (not bad!)
Interception rate (2nd)

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beast
Select Member

a year ago

We always hear about the 1st round, but Gute has a pattern in the first four rounds.

1st round: Defense
2nd, 3rd and 4th round: Offense

The exceptions since Gute started (2018) being
2018 CB Jackson (bust)
2018 ILB Burks (STer)
2020 QB Love
2023 DL Wooden

So yeah defense is getting 1st rounders, but the offense is getting the quantity and when you consider drafts high rate of busts, quantity might be better than straight quality as even the first rounders might be busts.

From 2019 to 2022 (because we haven't seen the 2023 Packers team results yet), in the top 4 rounds, the Packers have drafted only 5 defensive players all of them coming from the 1st round. Meanwhile drafting 12 offensive players. Yes first rounders are supposed to be better, but injuries happened and the draft has a very high bust or disappointed factor where quantity matters just as much as quality).

Bit also let's look at the 1st round defenders vs 2nd round offense.

2022: ILB Walker & DL Wyatt vs WR Watson
2021: CB Stokes vs C Myers
2020: Both offensive
2019: OLB Gary & S Savage vs OG Jenkins
2018: Both defensive

I believe one could argue the 2nd round offensive players have out played some of the 1st round defenders (so far).

I would be interested in hearing if this pattern is somewhat planned or completely random.

beast
Select Member

a year ago

That's what six offensive guys since '99 draft in the first round?

2 QB
1 TE
1 WR
2 OL
5 LB
7 DB
8 DL

image.png You have insufficient rights to see the content.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

How is Gary a DE but Van Ness an OLB? If you count the Edge Rushers as DE then Matthews and Van Ness should be DEs.

Seems like the Packers have drafted 10 defensive front guys and they weren't great at selecting them. Though seems like no GM is perfect and they all have their positions they're better or worse at drafting.

Martha Careful
Member

a year ago

Zero 2Cool responding to Nerdmann

Originally Posted by: nerdmann
People keep saying we don't have dominant defense. Granted, we slumped a bit last year. Even so, we picked up again towards the end of the season. Remember the previous season? Defense were absolute closers. Remember how Rasul stole that game against the Cardinals?

Zero2Cool replied "Packers didn't play Cardinals last season, that was the 2021 season. And Rasul Douglas was a free agent pick up, not a first round draft pick by the Packers."

Take it easy on Nerdmann. He has all recently shared with us all that he is an expert on hallucinogens/psychedelics, and perhaps when he posts he is being effected by those things. Indeed this would explain many things 🤣

Moreover:

I think the reason people are so critical of Joe Barry is that we see a lot of talent there which has been utilized in such a way that does not optimize their effectiveness. The easiest example is having the CBs play 8 yards off slot and wide-outs on 3rd & 2 situations. Other examples are not consistently taking away the opponents best weapon (as New England and other teams do) such as Jefferson of the Vikings. (Yes, I am aware we did that on the last Vikings game...so why not all the time?!) Maybe the talent IS there and we are just not coaching them up.
Re Stokes, I am going to withhold judgement here. A strong rookie year, then the guy was banged up. I think he will turn out to be very strong, maybe not all world, but really good.
If we are really honest about it, there is not much difference between low 1st and high 2nd round picks. I know we get the benefit of the 5th year option with first rounders, but perhaps the second round guys (like Avis) try harder, with less of a sense of entitlement so they might work out better.

Go Packers!!!!

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

a year ago

Originally Posted by: beast

It's what was reported at the time I updated the draft pick in the database. I don't go back and update them.

nerdmann
Premier Member

a year ago

Zero 2Cool responding to NerdmannTake it easy on Nerdmann. He has all recently shared with us all that he is an expert on hallucinogens/psychedelics, and perhaps when he posts he is being effected by those things. Indeed this would explain many things 🤣

Moreover:

I think the reason people are so critical of Joe Barry is that we see a lot of talent there which has been utilized in such a way that does not optimize their effectiveness. The easiest example is having the CBs play 8 yards off slot and wide-outs on 3rd & 2 situations. Other examples are not consistently taking away the opponents best weapon (as New England and other teams do) such as Jefferson of the Vikings. (Yes, I am aware we did that on the last Vikings game...so why not all the time?!) Maybe the talent IS there and we are just not coaching them up.
Re Stokes, I am going to withhold judgement here. A strong rookie year, then the guy was banged up. I think he will turn out to be very strong, maybe not all world, but really good.
If we are really honest about it, there is not much difference between low 1st and high 2nd round picks. I know we get the benefit of the 5th year option with first rounders, but perhaps the second round guys (like Avis) try harder, with less of a sense of entitlement so they might work out better.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful

This defense has been clutch at times. I think the defenses prime ingredient is when Matt is telling Barry what to do. t'm not suggesting that Barry is necessarily that dumb, but that they have a relationship where Joe is open to feedback in a way that many DCs are or would not be.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

beast
Select Member

a year ago

I'm not sure Joe Barry is natural more open to it than average, but more, you are f'n screwing up, you need to do this, or I'll find someone that will ...

Not to suggest it was stated like that, but in easy to fire positions, you listen to your boss or you're out. And Barry might not ever get a 4th attempt at DC if he's quickly kicked out of this one.

Martha Careful
Member

a year ago

#10

Beast guessed what MLF may have said to Joe Barry

you are f'n screwing up, you need to do this, or I'll find someone that will ...
Not to suggest it was stated like that... I think the defenses prime ingredient is when Matt is telling Barry what to do.

I think it was probably stated very close to that. This is football, not the United Nations. I don't think Barry is dumb, simply way to risk averse. And I believe your suggestion that they are at their best when MLF puts the hammer down is spot on.

Go Packers!!!!

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beast (17h) : I wonder why the Jets always hire defensive coaches to be head coach

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dfosterf (22-Jan) : Jeff Hafley would have been a better choice, fortunately they don't know that. Someone will figure that out next off season

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beast (21-Jan) : That way teams like Indiana and SMU don't make the conference championships by simply avoiding all the other good teams in their own confere

beast (21-Jan) : Also, with these "Super Conferences" instead of a single conference champion, have 4 teams make a Conference playoffs.

beast (21-Jan) : Also in college football, is a bye week a good or bad thing?

Martha Careful (21-Jan) : The tournament format was fine. Seeding could use some work.

beast (21-Jan) : You can't assume Ohio State would of won the Michigan game...

beast (21-Jan) : Rankings were 1) Oregon 2) Georgia 3) Texas 4) Penn State 5) Notre Dame 6) Ohio State, none of the rest mattered

wpr (21-Jan) : Texas, ND and OSU would have been fighting for the final 2 slots.

wpr (21-Jan) : Oregon and Georgia were locks. Without the luxury of extra playoff berths, Ohios St would have been more focused on Michigan game.

wpr (21-Jan) : Zero, no. If there were only 4 teams Ohio State would have been one of them. Boise St and ASU would not have been selected.

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beast (21-Jan) : Oh yeah, Georgia starting quarterback season ending elbow injury

beast (21-Jan) : Sadly something happened to Georgia... they should be playing in this game against Ohio State

beast (21-Jan) : I thought Ohio State and Texas were both better than Notre Dame & Penn State

Mucky Tundra (21-Jan) : Notre Lame getting rolled

Martha Careful (21-Jan) : Ohio State just got punched in the gut. Lets see how they respond

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