beast
a year ago
Great stuff here, maybe we should all share more often.

As for Neurology, I know absolutely nothing, other than I love short clips of Andrew Huberman explaining things.

Want to calm down and de-stress a bit? Find a way, to move your eyes laterally and keep moving them laterally this can be done sitting down or more naturally down when moving forward (though be safe, you still have to make sure you don't run out in traffic or something).




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Zero2Cool
a year ago

Great stuff here, maybe we should all share more often.

As for Neurology, I know absolutely nothing, other than I love short clips of Andrew Huberman explaining things.

Want to calm down and de-stress a bit? Find a way, to move your eyes laterally and keep moving them laterally this can be done sitting down or more naturally down when moving forward (though be safe, you still have to make sure you don't run out in traffic or something).

Originally Posted by: beast 



I've always had what I guess is called anxiety/panic attacks. For many years they freaked me out. I would reach out to my mom and others to ensure they were OK. I didn't know what was going on. I just knew I had this feeling something horrible was happening or going to happen. The only thing that eased for me was going on long car rides or long walks. I would think about how to handle if X was dead, Y was hurt, how I could be supported to the friends/family of that person and how to be their rock basically. 

One time I called my mom and she was like Kev, what's wrong. I was like nothing, why can't I call you without you asking? She said "cuz it's 11pm and you never call anyone, you just show up" ... and that was when she said I was having panic attacks. I scoffed at this for many years. 

I've realized what it is --- I'm somehow depressed. I have ZERO reason to be unhappy and/or depressed with my life. Yet, it comes out of nowhere like a Mack truck saying HELLO FUCKER remember me!!!

Over the last year or two I've learned (accepted?) to kind of "self coach" myself off the ledge - so to speak. And this ties into the tremors because I've noticed if I eat, continue to be active that it all connects to my tremors/shaking. The more I take care of myself, allow myself the privilege of having a purpose outside of being dad, the less frequent these panic/anxiety attacks, tremors/shakes and depression rear its' ugly head.

I was actually proud a month or so ago. I had one of those "you'd be better off dead" woe is me feelings. I stood up, walked around a little and said "do you actually want to die or do you want to stop feeling this way". I'd say about ~3 years ago this feeling was daily and it just compounded day after day after day. I never asked that aforementioned question though. I just kept trying to help others with their struggles, shouldering their problems and tried to figure out why I was a complete failure. It took me awhile (talking with counselor helped) that no one really cares about me so it's up to ME to care about ME. That isn't some pity thing either. The premise is if YOU don't care about YOU, then you really can't expect others to. And no the counselor didn't say that to me, lol. 

Anyhow, the eye movement thing I feel is real. My long car rides? My eyes were all over the place. I would drive trying to get myself lost. My walks or even cycling? Same thing, my eyes are all over checking out trees, buildings, animals, etc ... 


 
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beast
a year ago

I've always had what I guess is called anxiety/panic attacks. For many years they freaked me out. I would reach out to my mom and others to ensure they were OK. I didn't know what was going on. I just knew I had this feeling something horrible was happening or going to happen. The only thing that eased for me was going on long car rides or long walks. I would think about how to handle if X was dead, Y was hurt, how I could be supported to the friends/family of that person and how to be their rock basically. 

One time I called my mom and she was like Kev, what's wrong. I was like nothing, why can't I call you without you asking? She said "cuz it's 11pm and you never call anyone, you just show up" ... and that was when she said I was having panic attacks. I scoffed at this for many years. 

I've realized what it is --- I'm somehow depressed. I have ZERO reason to be unhappy and/or depressed with my life. Yet, it comes out of nowhere like a Mack truck saying HELLO FUCKER remember me!!!

Over the last year or two I've learned (accepted?) to kind of "self coach" myself off the ledge - so to speak. And this ties into the tremors because I've noticed if I eat, continue to be active that it all connects to my tremors/shaking. The more I take care of myself, allow myself the privilege of having a purpose outside of being dad, the less frequent these panic/anxiety attacks, tremors/shakes and depression rear its' ugly head.

I was actually proud a month or so ago. I had one of those "you'd be better off dead" woe is me feelings. I stood up, walked around a little and said "do you actually want to die or do you want to stop feeling this way". I'd say about ~3 years ago this feeling was daily and it just compounded day after day after day. I never asked that aforementioned question though. I just kept trying to help others with their struggles, shouldering their problems and tried to figure out why I was a complete failure. It took me awhile (talking with counselor helped) that no one really cares about me so it's up to ME to care about ME. That isn't some pity thing either. The premise is if YOU don't care about YOU, then you really can't expect others to. And no the counselor didn't say that to me, lol. 

Anyhow, the eye movement thing I feel is real. My long car rides? My eyes were all over the place. I would drive trying to get myself lost. My walks or even cycling? Same thing, my eyes are all over checking out trees, buildings, animals, etc ... 


 

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Outside of public speaking, I don't know much about panic attacks (nor public speaking... though looking at someone forward above their eyes has helped some with public speaking).

I do get anxiety, and it's even been suggested by a medical professional that I might be addicted anxiety, as I guess I'm the king of procrastinating, as there have been times that I couldn't get a dang thing done without any pressure or due date. I need that anxiety and that pressure (though I still strongly strongly.argue that I do my best work at night, with the least amount of distractions). 

I believe there is also deep breathing exercises that are said to help panic attacks. Though, I don't remember enough about it.

I ABSOLUTELY love driving without needing to look up directions or any pressure to get there anytime soon, just cruising around, even at my old job, that was my favorite part of the day, the drive to and from work, as the traffic patterns were so smooth. At my new job, they're not so smooth, as you have to hit those brakes at times for sure.


As for depression, I've dealt with that my entire life, was told I had it from a very early age. I'm not going to go into details, but I (wrongly) blamed myself for my Grandfather's death (I was 3, didn't do anything but be at the wrong place at the wrong time, but you try convincing a traumatized 3 year that they're wrong).


Based on my years of researching depression, there are thousands of different causes for it, and so different forms of it can act differently. But the biggest and most hopefully (non-medicine) solution I've found is the power of the voice (which sounds cra-cra (crazy) but hear me out).

Humans are social animals (yes we're animals), and study after study after study has found that depression are risen time and again which each and every technology advancement that limits vocally talking to each other while visual being able to see each other facial responses. Some of those qualities more important than the others. 

But sosical media and texting has absolutely risen depression rates as we aren't doing any of those things. Not talking, not actually seeing a facial nor body response to are actions.

Some other studies have found the best way to combat depression, is simply verbally talk out loud. Verbally talking to someone in person to see their facial and body language is best, followed by video calls which missed out the body language but you still have the fase language. Then voice calls.

My favorite suggestion to people, is talk to a pet... vent all your frustrations, worries, concerns and anything else to a pet... they won't tell anyone, and they might exchange listening to you for petting, or food. Heck, it can be your neighbors pet, as I have done, as my neighbor had a lonely golden retriever.

The study has even suggested simply talking out loud to yourself helps a good bit and that whole you might look crazy, but it is so much incredible healthier for your brain than not vocally talking at all. Even when they study the mentally ill, normally the ones that talk with themselves are usually (not always) less violent as they're using talking with themselves as a coping mechanism and rationale tool, it's the silent ones that you got to watch out for most.

Of course, pills also work for some people, but pills can have pluses and negatives as well.


After talking, the other huge things are sleep, vitamin D, exercise and diet. Sleep helps just about everything as it's a recovery phase for the body. Vitamin D helps mood and most people absorb it from the Sun, the guy videos I posted above has talked about getting out in the sun in the early morning, with nothing covering your eyes for like 45 minutes. In the morning, as it's best thing and wakes you up and helps you get into a better sleep/wake cycle. No specific diet, but make sure you aren't eating trash quality food... and have a well balanced diet.


And I totally know what you mean by Hello MF... as lots of people have told me, why didn't I tell them I was depressed... and the truthful answer as it's because it slowly creeps up on you, you think you're normal and not currently depressed, while you are absolutely depressed until some big huge ass moment happens and it's like, awe damn, I'm been fooled and embarrassed again by not realizing this has been creeping up for weeks or months and now I'm too damn deep and embarrassed and confused to ask for help.... and I can get out of it by myself (not I can't, but I stupidly tell myself that every fucking time).



I'm still having some of the other issues that you are talking about, and I mentally know that no one else cares, but for some reason, I still have a hard time caring about myself, and I guess I really don't to a degree, and feel like a complete failure. 

I don't feel like I want to kill myself anymore but when I was a teenage I did and my Mom got me to promise that I would try to outlive her (though she never told me she was going to love so dang long 😋). But as long as both my parents are still alive, I think I'll certainly want to keep living. After one of them is gone, I'm not sure how I'll feel, as they really are extreme personality roles that sorta balance each other out... and without the other, they might be going nuts or driving others nuts.


As for counselors, I've been hit and miss with them, I probably should try another... but the last one I had (probably a decade ago), I can sum them up in one word " Why? " That's literally all they had... and I absolutely begged for some feedback or insight and or what does this question for to do with anything, but got absolutely nothing back, and so I was no better at analysis myself than before, and while I did my best to answer every question or in this case every WHY? At some point I completely ran out of potential whys... like Doc, I've told you everything I know or can think of, give me something back to bounce off of... and he would just ask a new question, and then when I answered, ask why.... it was absolutely maddening ... like talking with someone that doesn't believe in mental health but was trying to understand it was more helpful. Sorry, just had to vent about that guy. I still can't understand, why he couldn't give any feedback. 
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Zero2Cool
a year ago

Outside of public speaking, I don't know much about panic attacks (nor public speaking... though looking at someone forward above their eyes has helped some with public speaking).

Originally Posted by: beast 

Some people like roller coasters for the thrill. I like getting in front of people and talking. There's something about taking the center of attention and making people laugh that enthralls me. There's a nervousness or maybe butterflies that I feel and then it's kind of like, OK, can you calm yourself down, can you talk smooth and not rushed, can you deliver your message, can you gauge the attention of the listeners, etc ... 

I do get anxiety, and it's even been suggested by a medical professional that I might be addicted anxiety, as I guess I'm the king of procrastinating, as there have been times that I couldn't get a dang thing done without any pressure or due date. I need that anxiety and that pressure (though I still strongly strongly.argue that I do my best work at night, with the least amount of distractions). 

Originally Posted by: beast 

There's a lot of us that need the time box to spur action. Myself, I can be somewhat of a wannabe perfectionist so I'll keep refactoring my code, or redoing an image, over and over and over again until the date it's due has arrived. It's more of a flaw in my character of something never really being good enough in my eyes. I know what you mean about doing your best work at night. It's kind of frustrating for me because I'm a morning person. I like coming in early because it's quiet before the chaos. My last employer would give me shit all the time about it. And I'd say in that 90 minutes before everyone rolls in, I get more done then the next 4-5 hours. 

I believe there is also deep breathing exercises that are said to help panic attacks. Though, I don't remember enough about it.

Originally Posted by: beast 

Breathing is massively important. I think I tend to take several big inhales/exhales through my mouth, and then inhale through my nose, exhale out my mouth as my coping process of relaxing myself. 

I ABSOLUTELY love driving without needing to look up directions or any pressure to get there anytime soon, just cruising around, even at my old job, that was my favorite part of the day, the drive to and from work, as the traffic patterns were so smooth. At my new job, they're not so smooth, as you have to hit those brakes at times for sure.

Originally Posted by: beast 

Haha, brakes are good thing!


As for depression, I've dealt with that my entire life, was told I had it from a very early age. I'm not going to go into details, but I (wrongly) blamed myself for my Grandfather's death (I was 3, didn't do anything but be at the wrong place at the wrong time, but you try convincing a traumatized 3 year that they're wrong).


Based on my years of researching depression, there are thousands of different causes for it, and so different forms of it can act differently. But the biggest and most hopefully (non-medicine) solution I've found is the power of the voice (which sounds cra-cra (crazy) but hear me out).

Humans are social animals (yes we're animals), and study after study after study has found that depression are risen time and again which each and every technology advancement that limits vocally talking to each other while visual being able to see each other facial responses. Some of those qualities more important than the others. 

Originally Posted by: beast 

Sorry to hear about your grandfather. 

But social media and texting has absolutely risen depression rates as we aren't doing any of those things. Not talking, not actually seeing a facial nor body response to are actions.

Originally Posted by: beast 

I deleted nearly all of my social media thingies. I didn't really use them much, but I found the less I look at my phone, the happier I am.

Some other studies have found the best way to combat depression, is simply verbally talk out loud. Verbally talking to someone in person to see their facial and body language is best, followed by video calls which missed out the body language but you still have the fase language. Then voice calls.

My favorite suggestion to people, is talk to a pet... vent all your frustrations, worries, concerns and anything else to a pet... they won't tell anyone, and they might exchange listening to you for petting, or food. Heck, it can be your neighbors pet, as I have done, as my neighbor had a lonely golden retriever.

The study has even suggested simply talking out loud to yourself helps a good bit and that whole you might look crazy, but it is so much incredible healthier for your brain than not vocally talking at all. Even when they study the mentally ill, normally the ones that talk with themselves are usually (not always) less violent as they're using talking with themselves as a coping mechanism and rationale tool, it's the silent ones that you got to watch out for most.

Of course, pills also work for some people, but pills can have pluses and negatives as well.


After talking, the other huge things are sleep, vitamin D, exercise and diet. Sleep helps just about everything as it's a recovery phase for the body. Vitamin D helps mood and most people absorb it from the Sun, the guy videos I posted above has talked about getting out in the sun in the early morning, with nothing covering your eyes for like 45 minutes. In the morning, as it's best thing and wakes you up and helps you get into a better sleep/wake cycle. No specific diet, but make sure you aren't eating trash quality food... and have a well balanced diet.

Originally Posted by: beast 

Talking out loud is something I have also found that helps me. There are times I get very overwhelmed and I end up talking myself back to reality. Otherwise, everything feels like it's taking my air, I have elephant on my chest, the walls are closing in and when I realize what is happening. I sometimes close my eyes and out loud say, why you are freaking out, nothing thrown at you is too much, simply adapt and succeed, adapt, succeed.

It's funny you mention the talking out loud thing though. Funny because I noticed Summer 2021 I was talking out loud a lot during my walks. Not shouting or screaming, but talking out loud as if someone were next to me. I found I have been doing this in the car driving to/from work for YEARS. Didn't even realize it. But on the walks, I'd be like "why the hell does that bother me, why do I let that petty issue/thing get under my skin, does it really matter in the grand scheme of things, no, no it freaking doesn't you sadistic control freak!" 


And I totally know what you mean by Hello MF... as lots of people have told me, why didn't I tell them I was depressed... and the truthful answer as it's because it slowly creeps up on you, you think you're normal and not currently depressed, while you are absolutely depressed until some big huge ass moment happens and it's like, awe damn, I'm been fooled and embarrassed again by not realizing this has been creeping up for weeks or months and now I'm too damn deep and embarrassed and confused to ask for help.... and I can get out of it by myself (not I can't, but I stupidly tell myself that every fucking time).

Originally Posted by: beast 

I don't think anyone really knows I deal with depression. I really don't have anyone left in my life. I ruined that years ago.

When Keiana was born, I felt she was better off without me. Then a girl I dated who's dad ran out on her and her family said "a dad who tries and doesn't give up is always a good dad" and that hit me like a ton of bricks. I was like ... I can do that, I can try, I can definitely do that, WTF am I doing?? She was a year old and that's when I got alternating weekends. Then I sort of lost my dad and I said fuck the world. I pushed everyone away and out of my life and focused on getting my HSED, getting into college, getting a career and focused on growing up and being the best dad I could be. It wasn't until my early to mid 30's where I finally lightened up and realized the damage I had done. I took the "my daughter, my responsibility" thing to an extreme. It was a mistake.

Funny thing though. My maternal Grandma back in early 2012 told me something. We were sitting at the table and talking. I forget the topic, but she looked at me and said, "Kevin, you have anxiety and depression, you're depressed". I scoffed at this and said something like, Grandma, no, I'm fine, no way I'm depressed. I'm always laughing, making others laugh, doing things to smile on others faces, etc ... she stood up from the table and gave me the wry smile while saying "Kevin, you are ... and it is OK". It was over 10 years ago and I can picture it like it was yesterday. I drove back to Green Bay from Brussels thinking she was crazy. How can I, ME, be thought to be depressed? I have healthy girls, I am healthy, I have roof over my head, ... yeah sure I lost mom a few years earlier, but who hasn't lost someone they love. 

That grandma passed away around Thanksgiving 2013 many years before I realized -- she was right. I wish I had realized it earlier so I could have asked her how the hell she knew.


I think I can kind of relate to the being confused part. For me, my confusion was you're living a good life, why aren't you happy? I have to get out of it by myself. I've tried opening up about it and it just seems to push people away. There are times I will try bringing it up to my dad, but it's Catch-22. Sometimes he's understanding, other times he scoffs and says "not sure why people need to feel better" or something like that. So, it's hard to be vulnerable when you know 50/50 it's gonna fall on deaf ears. And I don't hold this against anyone. I don't think people are turned of by depression talk out of being bad people. I think it's more so they don't want to face the possibility they too are depressed. So, it's kind of a coping mechanism for them to ignore and pretend depression doesn't exist.


I'm still having some of the other issues that you are talking about, and I mentally know that no one else cares, but for some reason, I still have a hard time caring about myself, and I guess I really don't to a degree, and feel like a complete failure. 

Originally Posted by: beast 

If you have moments where you feel like a failure, or complete failure, try to think about your successes, think about your wins. And do so in the eyes of someone else having accomplished them. I say this because I think you might be like me and too hard on your self. 


I don't feel like I want to kill myself anymore but when I was a teenage I did and my Mom got me to promise that I would try to outlive her (though she never told me she was going to love so dang long 😋). But as long as both my parents are still alive, I think I'll certainly want to keep living. After one of them is gone, I'm not sure how I'll feel, as they really are extreme personality roles that sorta balance each other out... and without the other, they might be going nuts or driving others nuts.

Originally Posted by: beast 

That is very good that you do not want to kill yourself. There is plenty to live for. We just have to kind of figure out what it is and also remind ourselves to go easy on ourselves. As for losing a parent, based on my experience. My mom didn't really raise me. My dad took custody of me when I was about five. But when she passed away, I was 27 years old and for the first time in my life, I was actually scared. I hadn't ever been afraid of anything before. I've had a gun held to my head, car mishaps, fights, never really felt "afraid", but when she passed away I swear the clouds were closing in on me and I felt fear. I think a part of it was realizing I'm not in control and like mom used to tell me, "Kev, you're not Superman, you cannot save everyone" and Lord knows, I tried like hell to save her ... and I failed. Up to that point in my life, I had always been able to navigate and get myself out of any situation I was in. Adding to how naïve I was, when Grandma called saying mom's heart stopped, I said something like, when they get her heart going again and she wakes up, can you have her call me please? Grandma was almost sobbing, but sternly while still being caring said, "Kevin, you need to listen to me, there was NOTHING you could do to prevent this, NOTHING. She is gone, your mom is gone, Linda has left us" and she started crying as she tailed off and I lost it. 

I guess what I'm trying to get at here is appreciate those you love -- daily. Not saying you don't, but any argument, any rift, any whatever -- get over it. 


As for counselors, I've been hit and miss with them, I probably should try another... but the last one I had (probably a decade ago), I can sum them up in one word " Why? " That's literally all they had... and I absolutely begged for some feedback or insight and or what does this question for to do with anything, but got absolutely nothing back, and so I was no better at analysis myself than before, and while I did my best to answer every question or in this case every WHY? At some point I completely ran out of potential whys... like Doc, I've told you everything I know or can think of, give me something back to bounce off of... and he would just ask a new question, and then when I answered, ask why.... it was absolutely maddening ... like talking with someone that doesn't believe in mental health but was trying to understand it was more helpful. Sorry, just had to vent about that guy. I still can't understand, why he couldn't give any feedback. 

Originally Posted by: beast 

Kind of a disclaimer here, I didn't go to a counselor, I talked with someone who happens to be a counselor, haha. I can't imagine why someone would just say "Why" over and over unless they just want to have you walk through and into the answers. But, they have to do more guiding than that. I would think anyway. I've talked with counselors since I was a kid and it just doesn't work for me and it's my own fault. I know the routine and I know their aim so I tend to turn the tables. The last one I talked with I ended up having her open up to me about her issues and then I was helping her before she said NO, you need to stop this, this is about YOU, not about ME. She labeled that behavior but I forget what it was. 
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