Zero2Cool
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3 years ago

The Pro Football Hall of Fame announced the semifinalist list for the seniors and coaches/contributors' categories for the Class of 2023. There are 25 senior candidates and 29 coaches/contributors. The Hall’s 12-person seniors committee trimmed a list of eligible nominees to 25 semifinalists. The remaining candidates are: Ken Anderson, Maxie Baughan, Mark Clayton, Roger Craig, [more]

The Hall’s 12-person seniors committee trimmed a list of eligible nominees to 25 semifinalists. The remaining candidates are: Ken Anderson, Maxie Baughan, Mark Clayton, Roger Craig, LaVern Dilweg, Randy Gradishar, Lester Hayes, Chris Hinton, Chuck Howley, Cecil Isbell, Joe Jacoby, Billie “White Shoes” Johnson, Mike Kenn, Joe Klecko, Bob Kuechenberg, George Kunz, Jim Marshall, Clay Matthews Jr., Eddie Meador, Stanley Morgan, Tommy Nobis, Ken Riley, Sterling Sharpe, Otis Taylor and Everson Walls.

Continue Reading @ Charean Williams 

Charean Williams wrote:



We went from crying about Jerry Kramer, to LeRoy Butler and now it's Sterling Sharpe. It's like Packers fans think every year a Packers player should be inducted into the Hall of Fame and when it doesn't happen it's WHAT'S THE DEAL!

Looking over the list, I think these guys all have had ties with Green Bay Packers.

Mark Clayton
Cecil Isbell
Sterling Sharpe
Mike Holmgren
Lee Remmel
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earthquake
3 years ago
I think Holmgren has a good case. Won a SB with GB, went to another, and took the Seahawks to their first SB with a backup QB.

Sterling Sharpe would be a sure-fire HOF guy if he played for 3 more years. But he didn't. If we're putting very good players who got hurt early in their career in the HOF, Nick Collins belongs as well.
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earthquake
3 years ago
I'm off on a bit of a tangent now, but it's amusing to think of the number of backup QBs the Packer's have had that have gone on to win or participate in Super Bowls.

Jim McMahon backed up Favre in the 90s, though of course in the twilight of his career after he won his Super Bowl in 1985.

Kurt Warner didn't make the roster as a UDFA but went on to appear in 3 Super Bowls, winning 1. Incredible story there.

Matt Hasslebeck - lost a SB to the Stealers in 2005

Doug Pederson coached the Eagles to an improbablee Super Bowl win over the Patriots, with a backup QB to make things even more meta.

And who can forget Matt Flynn throwing 6 TDs in week 17, the game the Lions traditionally consider their Super Bowl. Flynn would go on to sign with the Seahawks, but not stick around long enough to get a ring in 2014. Here's a hilarious quote I found as I was using the google to fact check this statement (context: it was an article on where Flynn was going to sign as a FA):


I don't see this happening—the Seahawks have a quarterback that is good enough with Tarvaris Jackson, and I'd be surprised if the team brought in another veteran signal-caller to compete for the job.



Tavaris Jackson. Yeah. Que Russell Wilson and Matt Flynn.
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Pugger
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3 years ago

I think Holmgren has a good case. Won a SB with GB, went to another, and took the Seahawks to their first SB with a backup QB.

Sterling Sharpe would be a sure-fire HOF guy if he played for 3 more years. But he didn't. If we're putting very good players who got hurt early in their career in the HOF, Nick Collins belongs as well.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Terrell Davis only played 7 years and he is in. Gale Sayers also played in 7 years and he too is in. Sterling Sharp dominated when he played for 7 years. He was a 3x first team All-Pro, 5x Pro-Bowler, 3x league reception leader and 2x TD leader. Everyone in the stadium knew who was going to be targeted and he still got open and the ball. The only thing that could stop him was a neck injury. I recall his brother Shannon said at his induction ceremony that he might be the only HOF player who was the second best player in his family. I really hope he gets in this year.

Nick also played for 7 years (isn't it an odd coincidence all of these wonderful players all played for only 7 years?) but he may have to wait another 15 years before he is eligible as a senior. It might be hard for him to get in otherwise.
dhazer
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3 years ago

I think Holmgren has a good case. Won a SB with GB, went to another, and took the Seahawks to their first SB with a backup QB.

Sterling Sharpe would be a sure-fire HOF guy if he played for 3 more years. But he didn't. If we're putting very good players who got hurt early in their career in the HOF, Nick Collins belongs as well.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



You do realize both Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson only played 2 more years than Sterling. Terrell Davis played six years and got in He was better than Jerry Rice in 5 of those 7 years btw and he was the 1st ever with back-to-back 100 catch seasons. And of course, you can't keep Choo Choo out ask his brother that's in the Hall.









That should say it all right there
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
reed
Zero2Cool
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3 years ago
Barry Sanders 10 seasons was best runner ever. Shut up.
Sterling Sharpe 7 seasons.

That's three, not two.

Fight me!!!
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Cheesey
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3 years ago

Barry Sanders 10 seasons was best runner ever. Shut up.
Sterling Sharpe 7 seasons.

That's three, not two.

Fight me!!!

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Barry Sanders was all hype. He wasn't that good. He had a great O-line, that opened up huge holes that you could drive a truck through. Anyone could run for huge gains with that line blocking.




(Just kidding if course! Watch Zero's head blow up now!😆🤪😜)
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earthquake
3 years ago

Terrell Davis only played 7 years and he is in. Gale Sayers also played in 7 years and he too is in. Sterling Sharp dominated when he played for 7 years. He was a 3x first team All-Pro, 5x Pro-Bowler, 3x league reception leader and 2x TD leader. Everyone in the stadium knew who was going to be targeted and he still got open and the ball. The only thing that could stop him was a neck injury. I recall his brother Shannon said at his induction ceremony that he might be the only HOF player who was the second best player in his family. I really hope he gets in this year.

Nick also played for 7 years (isn't it an odd coincidence all of these wonderful players all played for only 7 years?) but he may have to wait another 15 years before he is eligible as a senior. It might be hard for him to get in otherwise.

Originally Posted by: Pugger 



Terrell Davis shouldn't be in the HOF. He had 4 good-great seasons. Gale Sayers went in in 1977, his situation is not comparable.

Nick Collins played effectively 6 seasons, ~3 of which he was elite. I was happy to watch him play, but he shouldn't and won't get into the HOF. If we're gonna be homers Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson, and Ahman Green should be in the HOF too.

You do realize both Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson only played 2 more years than Sterling. Terrell Davis played six years and got in He was better than Jerry Rice in 5 of those 7 years btw and he was the 1st ever with back-to-back 100 catch seasons. And of course, you can't keep Choo Choo out ask his brother that's in the Hall.

Originally Posted by: dhazer 



Jerry Rice was in a different stratosphere than Sterling Sharpe (and everyone else). In 1995, an old man in his 12th year in the league, he blew away everything Sharpe had done. And then he went on to play for 10 more years. Rice is in the conversation for top 5 football players of all time, at any position. Who cares if Sharpe once caught more balls in a season than Rice. Rice played for a long time and wasn't #1 in every category every year. A lot of QBs have had better seasons than or threw more TDs in a given year than Tom Brady too. It doesn't mean much.

Sharpe is a top 10 WR in his era, which is an accomplishment, but is it HOF-worthy? Ehhhh... He certainly belongs in the Hall of Very Good.
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Pugger
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3 years ago

Terrell Davis shouldn't be in the HOF. He had 4 good-great seasons. Gale Sayers went in in 1977, his situation is not comparable.

Nick Collins played effectively 6 seasons, ~3 of which he was elite. I was happy to watch him play, but he shouldn't and won't get into the HOF. If we're gonna be homers Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson, and Ahman Green should be in the HOF too.



Jerry Rice was in a different stratosphere than Sterling Sharpe (and everyone else). In 1995, an old man in his 12th year in the league, he blew away everything Sharpe had done. And then he went on to play for 10 more years. Rice is in the conversation for top 5 football players of all time, at any position. Who cares if Sharpe once caught more balls in a season than Rice. Rice played for a long time and wasn't #1 in every category every year. A lot of QBs have had better seasons than or threw more TDs in a given year than Tom Brady too. It doesn't mean much.

Sharpe is a top 10 WR in his era, which is an accomplishment, but is it HOF-worthy? Ehhhh... He certainly belongs in the Hall of Very Good.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Jerry Rice fumbled in that playoff game in 1999.
Martha Careful
3 years ago
Jerry Rice was terrific, but so was Sterling Sharpe, just not as terrific. He should be in.

His biggest problem is that he was not a media ass-kisser like 95% of his peers. He did not play the game and that will be held against him.

To be frank with you, other than Hudson, he was the second best Packer receiver ever, then Lofton, then Adams.
Go Packers!!!!
earthquake
3 years ago

Jerry Rice fumbled in that playoff game in 1999.

Originally Posted by: Pugger 



Yep. And Tom Brady fumbled in that playoff game in 2001.
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Martha Careful
3 years ago


Boys, at 12:05 is the best line of the speech FWIW

also Mr. Cool posted

Barry Sanders 10 seasons was best runner ever. Shut up.

With all due respect he was very good, and had many spectacular runs. But the NFL is made up of turning 3 yard gains into 5 or 6 yard gains consistently. I don't think he did that. He gamble on plays fairly often, and turned 2 yard gains into 2 yard losses. Then every 15 plays would break off an 80 yard run. You don't keep an offense on the field very long with that approach.

Earl Campbell was the the best runner ever, then Jim Brown, then everyone else.
Go Packers!!!!
earthquake
3 years ago

Jerry Rice was terrific, but so was Sterling Sharpe, just not as terrific. He should be in.

His biggest problem is that he was not a media ass-kisser like 95% of his peers. He did not play the game and that will be held against him.

To be frank with you, other than Hudson, he was the second best Packer receiver ever, then Lofton, then Adams.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



I've got Lofton ahead of Sharpe. At his peak, Lofton was putting up the sort of yards that Sharpe gained on roughly 60% of the receptions. The dude has an incredible career average of over 18 yards per reception (5 yards more than Sharpe). And he played for over twice as long as Sharpe, hitting more than 1000 yards and 8 TDs at the age of 35. Sharpe may have been better for 2 or 3 years, but Lofton had the better career, and it isn't close.
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dhazer
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3 years ago

Terrell Davis shouldn't be in the HOF. He had 4 good-great seasons. Gale Sayers went in in 1977, his situation is not comparable.

Nick Collins played effectively 6 seasons, ~3 of which he was elite. I was happy to watch him play, but he shouldn't and won't get into the HOF. If we're gonna be homers Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson, and Ahman Green should be in the HOF too.



Jerry Rice was in a different stratosphere than Sterling Sharpe (and everyone else). In 1995, an old man in his 12th year in the league, he blew away everything Sharpe had done. And then he went on to play for 10 more years. Rice is in the conversation for top 5 football players of all time, at any position. Who cares if Sharpe once caught more balls in a season than Rice. Rice played for a long time and wasn't #1 in every category every year. A lot of QBs have had better seasons than or threw more TDs in a given year than Tom Brady too. It doesn't mean much.

Sharpe is a top 10 WR in his era, which is an accomplishment, but is it HOF-worthy? Ehhhh... He certainly belongs in the Hall of Very Good.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 


Did you even look at what Sharpe did back then? He won the damn triple crown in his last year he scored 18 tds with a young Favre. And you say Rice blew Sharpe away in 95 I say your a smart one there lol Sharpe wasn't in the league in 95 his last year was his 18 td year in 94 and his last game ever he played with that injury and ended the game with 9 receptions for 132 and 3 tds. I think besides him playing with mediocre qbs I am more amazed at his ypc for his career is 13.7 yds. Now we know you do your homework and find facts to back your statements but I would like to throw this comparison out there. From 1988 to 1994 these are the averages for the 2 players Catches per a year in that span Rice = 88.57 Sharpe = 85 average yards a year Rice = 1386 Sharpe = 1162 average per a catch Rice = 15.94 Sharpe = 14.78 and finally TDS Rices fame average = 13 Sharpe 9.25 . So by looking at this and I don't see Rice in a different stratosphere and when you take in that Sharpe was hurt by his rookie season when Rice was already a star and of course in that time frame lets do the other obvious comparision. Rice had 2 average qbs in Montana and Young throwing him the ball and Sharpe had the HOF qbs in Randy Wright, Don Majkowski, Mike Tomczak,Blair Keil, Anthony Dilweg before he got the gun slinger in Favre for his 2.5 years. Now I am really curious and lets compare apples to apples Rice with Young and Sharpe with Favre.


Ok in those 3 years when the qbs could be comparable Rice averaged 98 catches (pretty impressive) Sharpe averaged 104.6 (not to shabby) Rice average yards 1401 (very Impressive) Sharpe 1284.6 (he sucks) Average per catch Rice 14.3 and Sharpe 12.6 and finally Rice will run away with this right TD average per year 12.6 and poor Sharpe only averaged 14. So when you put them on a level playing field I can see how you can say Rice is another stratosphere. Get the hell out of here and I would say they were both pretty elite and if players like Owens and Bruce and Irving can make the hall then Sharpe deserves to be in there.
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
reed
earthquake
3 years ago

Did you even look at what Sharpe did back then? He won the damn triple crown in his last year he scored 18 tds with a young Favre. And you say Rice blew Sharpe away in 95 I say your a smart one there lol Sharpe wasn't in the league in 95 his last year was his 18 td year in 94 and his last game ever he played with that injury and ended the game with 9 receptions for 132 and 3 tds. I think besides him playing with mediocre qbs I am more amazed at his ypc for his career is 13.7 yds. Now we know you do your homework and find facts to back your statements but I would like to throw this comparison out there. From 1988 to 1994 these are the averages for the 2 players Catches per a year in that span Rice = 88.57 Sharpe = 85 average yards a year Rice = 1386 Sharpe = 1162 average per a catch Rice = 15.94 Sharpe = 14.78 and finally TDS Rices fame average = 13 Sharpe 9.25 . So by looking at this and I don't see Rice in a different stratosphere and when you take in that Sharpe was hurt by his rookie season when Rice was already a star and of course in that time frame lets do the other obvious comparision. Rice had 2 average qbs in Montana and Young throwing him the ball and Sharpe had the HOF qbs in Randy Wright, Don Majkowski, Mike Tomczak,Blair Keil, Anthony Dilweg before he got the gun slinger in Favre for his 2.5 years. Now I am really curious and lets compare apples to apples Rice with Young and Sharpe with Favre.


Ok in those 3 years when the qbs could be comparable Rice averaged 98 catches (pretty impressive) Sharpe averaged 104.6 (not to shabby) Rice average yards 1401 (very Impressive) Sharpe 1284.6 (he sucks) Average per catch Rice 14.3 and Sharpe 12.6 and finally Rice will run away with this right TD average per year 12.6 and poor Sharpe only averaged 14. So when you put them on a level playing field I can see how you can say Rice is another stratosphere. Get the hell out of here and I would say they were both pretty elite and if players like Owens and Bruce and Irving can make the hall then Sharpe deserves to be in there.

Originally Posted by: dhazer 



Why would I compare Rice and Sharpe while Sharpe was at his best while ignoring Rice's accomplishments? Rice played before and after Sharpe was in his prime. You have to cherry-pick stats to make it look like Sharpe was anywhere near the player that Rice was. This isn't even a knock on Sharpe. Rice was better than every WR that played the game.

I mentioned '95 because Rice caught more balls for more yards than Sharpe did in any year he played. He also scored more TDs in '95 than either year that Sharpe broke 100 receptions. Sharpe's run from '92-94 was excellent, but Rice put up similar performances for 11 straight seasons from '86-96, a truly legendary achievement. Everything Sharpe did, Rice did better at some point in his career.

Rice played for 20 years and wasn't the same guy at 42 that he was at 32, so the fact that he has better career averages in most categories than Sharpe, who didn't have the opportunity to play long enough to decline physically, is truly remarkable. At the age of 40, rice put up 92/1211/7. Rice's sustained excellence is what makes him the best WR of all time, and one of the greatest players regardless of position.

If you want an apples-to-apples comparison, look at Rice's first 7 years vs Sharpe's 7. Over this span, Sharp caught more balls but for fewer yards and a lot fewer TDs.

Rice: 526 rec, 9072 yards, 93 tds, 17.2 avg
Sharpe: 595 rec, 8134, 64 tds, 13.7 avg

Or take '88-94, when they were both playing, and Rice caught more balls, for more yards, and more TDs.
Rice: 620 rec, 9700 yards, 91 tds, 15.6 avg

In my view, getting into the HOF should be about the accomplishments of a player's career. Not whether they put together 2 or 3 excellent seasons. Preist Holmes had an amazing 3 years from 2001-2003 too, but he shouldn't be in the HOF. Holmes and Sharpe can be let into the Hall of What If They Didn't Get Hurt.

Listen, I was a big fan of Sharpe when he played. It was devastating when he got hurt. I won't be upset if he gets into the HOF. Honestly, I would prefer to live in an alternate universe where Sharpe was healthy enough to play another 10 years so that we could have a debate about whether Sharpe was better than Rice. But it didn't actually happen.
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Zero2Cool
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3 years ago

Rice was better than every WR that played the game.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Even though he played for the Green Bay Packers, I think Don Hutson was best receiver to play the game.
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earthquake
3 years ago

Even though he played for the Green Bay Packers, I think Don Hutson was best receiver to play the game.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



There is a very good case for Hutson being the best WR ever, possibly the best at any position. Their eras were so different that it's hard to compare. But Hutson was certainly a more dominant player in relation to his peers and did more to invent or define what the game is, even today. So yeah, I think I agree with you there.
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Pugger
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3 years ago

Jerry Rice was terrific, but so was Sterling Sharpe, just not as terrific. He should be in.

His biggest problem is that he was not a media ass-kisser like 95% of his peers. He did not play the game and that will be held against him.

To be frank with you, other than Hudson, he was the second best Packer receiver ever, then Lofton, then Adams.

Originally Posted by: Martha Careful 



Did you ever see Lofton during his playing days in GB?
Martha Careful
3 years ago
Pugger wrote:

Did you ever see Lofton during his playing days in GB?



Why yes I did....which is one of the reasons I have the opinion I do....

Further statistically anyway...From various sources

Lofton In 13 playoff game appearances, Lofton caught 41 passes for 759 yards and eight touchdowns, including a seven-reception game in Super Bowl XXVI. In three of those playoff games he recorded 100-yard plus performances.

Championship Games

1990 AFC - Buffalo Bills 51, Los Angeles Raiders 3
Lofton started at wide receiver. He recorded five receptions for 113 yards and two touchdowns.

1991 AFC - Buffalo Bills 10, Denver Broncos 7
Lofton started at wide receiver. He recorded one reception for 11 yards
1992 AFC - Buffalo Bills 29, Miami Dolphins 10
Lofton started at wide receiver. He recorded two receptions for 19 yards.

Super Bowls

Super Bowl XXV - New York Giants 20, Buffalo Bills 19
Lofton started at wide receiver. He recorded one reception for 61 yards.

Super Bowl XXVI - Washington Redskins 37, Buffalo Bills 24
Lofton started at wide receiver. He led the team in receptions with seven for 92 yards. He also had one rush for minus 3 yards.

Super Bowl XXVII - Dallas Cowboys 52, Buffalo Bills 17
Lofton started at wide receiver. He did not record a reception.

Sharpe
https://www.packers.com/news/unstoppable-sterling-sharpe-carried-offensive-load-for-packers 
In his only two playoff games, Sharpe turned 11 catches into 229 yards and four touchdowns….a limited sample size and he was hurt in at least one of those games…nevertheless on average, better than Lofton.

But statistics can over and understate the case, I guess I would leave it at this. When healthy, I would slightly prefer Sharpe, but, if not, I would love to have Lofton.

Go Packers!!!!
dhazer
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3 years ago

There is a very good case for Hutson being the best WR ever, possibly the best at any position. Their eras were so different that it's hard to compare. But Hutson was certainly a more dominant player in relation to his peers and did more to invent or define what the game is, even today. So yeah, I think I agree with you there.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



I was comparing apples to apples when the 2 receivers had a hof qb throwing the ball to him. You talk about Rice and how he was so great and I don't deny he wasn't but Sharpe when he had the same caliber qb was just as impressive. He had his career cut short just as he was peaking. And at the rate he was going he could have set all the records that Rice did. Then again just like most career records are usually hand in hand with longevity. I am just stating that Rice wasn't in another stratosphere when Sharpe had Favre. And I think he deserves to be in the hall the way they keep putting in these mediocre players that put up stats when the game was changed to favor them.
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be 🙂 (PS, Zero should charge for this)
reed
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Martha Careful (25-Jun) : I would have otherwise admirably served
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