beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
2 years ago
Not a subject I thought I'd bring up, then again it's NFL Coach Brian Flores filing a lawsuit on this.

Really I think the lawsuit has two different issues,

1) Dolphins owner offered him an additional $100,000 per loss during the 2019 season to tank and get the #1 pick. Also the owner requested that he recruits a QB that's under contract with another team which is against NFL rules.

2) Teams are wasting his time with sham interviews, where they already know whom they're going to hire, but request that he interviews just for the Rooney Rule and wasting his time. But teams are doing this based on the Rooney Rule and then trying not to be racist or limit it to whites only.

Former Dolphins head coach Brian Flores is suing the NFL and teams he says have engaged in racist practices against Black coaches.

Flores named the league, the Dolphins, the Giants and the Broncos, as well as “John Doe teams 1-29” as defendants in the lawsuit, which is structured as a class action complaint, suggesting that Flores expects other coaches to join him as plaintiffs in the suit.

profootballtalk  wrote:


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wpr
  • wpr
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2 years ago
It is race based therefore it is racist. Teams must interview non whites for jobs. I have never seen any qualification requirements. The premises is organizations hire people they feel comfortable with. If enough non whites get known in the good old boy circle then organizations will hire more of them. It hasn't worked that way.

My son has been on both sides of the quota extra points for being a certain type of person. When he was starting college he planed to be a CPA. He was a middle class white man. There are no extra points for him. On a 100 point system if he and a Black male both had 87 points, the college would accept the Black male because he was Black. Ok fine. But what actually happens is if he had 87 points and the Black male had 75 points they still took the Black student because there were not as many Blacks in the College of Business and the university NEEDED to keep their numbers up. Many of the marginal students (of all races) couldn't keep up and dropped out leaving openings for the "more qualified" but rejected to reapply.

After servicing in Afghanistan and changing his major he was a desired commodity. He was male in an almost all female field (Social Worker). He was able to choose the grad school of his choice. Being male, being a vet and a wounded one at that gave him three bonus points.

Quotas are a good idea that simply does not work. The best students, the best players, the best coaches should be taken. If you want more participants then expand the program. It's hard to have more than one HC but in the past 10 years the OC, DC and now even ST coach have moved up in stature. The number of assistants has mushroomed. They have special teams assistants and quality control coaches. Ruvell Martin is the COACHING ASSISTANT (MINORITY FELLOWSHIP). Good coaches will move up the ranks. Some teams hire lousy coaches. They usually get fired. Mo Drayton and who ever was before him.
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Cheesey
2 years ago
WPR hit the nail on the head. Race based is racist.
Back in the late 1970s, I wanted to be a Milwaukee Police officer. The ad in the Milwaukee Journal said how to apply. At the end of the ad said, “if you are a minority, or a woman, apply”.
So what it amounted to, they would take a less qualified applicant over any white guy.
I would say that was racist.
I want the best qualified for any position, on any job. But ESPECIALLY when it involves people that carry guns on the job.
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beast
  • beast
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2 years ago
I agree it's race based, and therefore racist, but I'm not sure I can say he was discriminated against, by getting more interviews, even if they were sham interviews.

Though the thing that bothers me most is the 3rd round Comp picks teams are getting, should a minority on their team get hired as GM or head coach elsewhere.

So if Nathaniel Hackett was a minority, the Packers would be getting some 3rd round Comp picks. I'm not sure if it's stupid or not, but I kind of wish there was a lawsuit for this...
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Zero2Cool
2 years ago
There should be a Welker Rule or Sehorn Rule. You must tryout X number of White WR and White CB's before finalizing your 53 man roster. And maintain a quota at each position.

Sounds stupid, doesn't it? Yeah.
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wpr
  • wpr
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2 years ago

I agree it's race based, and therefore racist, but I'm not sure I can say he was discriminated against, by getting more interviews, even if they were sham interviews.

Though the thing that bothers me most is the 3rd round Comp picks teams are getting, should a minority on their team get hired as GM or head coach elsewhere.

So if Nathaniel Hackett was a minority, the Packers would be getting some 3rd round Comp picks. I'm not sure if it's stupid or not, but I kind of wish there was a lawsuit for this...

Originally Posted by: beast 



So help me out with this. I thought team that HIRED the minority received the 3rd round comp pick. It incentivizes the team that is hiring the minority. Why reward the team that loses a coach who had him/her in the "wrong position" to begin with?
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Cheesey
2 years ago
True story: years ago David Letterman had basketball star Michael Jordan on his show.
Jordan was wearing his black and red Air Jordan sneakers, which Jordan said “were banned by the NBA because it doesn’t have any white in it”
Letterman’s response?
“Well, neither does the NBA.”

Just something to hopefully make you all laugh!
(It made me laugh)😂
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beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
2 years ago

So help me out with this. I thought team that HIRED the minority received the 3rd round comp pick. It incentivizes the team that is hiring the minority. Why reward the team that loses a coach who had him/her in the "wrong position" to begin with?

Originally Posted by: wpr 



I forget what they originally tried to do, but I think it was to reward the hiring TE, but that idea was quickly rejected (I'm not sure why, but I assume because they thought teams would abuse it, like the Texans just hired a head coach and fired him after one year, or someone like Jerry Jones would be pissed that others are getting it for the GM role, where he can't, as he's the GM).

But they switched it to the team that was losing the talent (just like normal Comp picks go to teams that are losing the talent) as they're the ones that supposedly developed the person into a star, so they're rewarding the development of minorities.
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2 years ago
This a delicate subject....just one woman's opinion...so I hope I don't offend.

Because of free agency, and because (I think) a high percentage of players are black, there would be a natural tendency that a black player would go to organization which would appear to NOT be racist and promote black people. Conversely, if a team was viewed as 'racist' they aren't going to get black free agents, which would be self destructive.

Because of that, all things being close to equal, it would be to any organization's advantage to hire a black guys to fill roles.

(You will notice however, that nobody cares whether Hispanic Americans are hired, which is 18.4% of the U.S. population)

In other words, what I am trying so say is that the market should take care of the issue as it would be to a team's advantage to have black people on the staff and in the front office.

I think sports overall has been awesome for race relations as it is a meritocracy. Teams want to win. That means having the best players irrespective of race, creed or anything else.

When I am rooting for the green and gold, I don't care what color they are.
Go Packers!!!!
2 years ago
NYTimes column today
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/03/briefing/nfl-head-coach-brian-flores-racism.html 

February 3, 2022 By David Leonhardt

Good morning. Most N.F.L. players are Black. Only one head coach is.

‘Bigger than football’

Second and even third chances are not that unusual for N.F.L. head coaches. Over their careers, several coaches have run three different teams, and most of them had only mixed records of success before getting the third job. If they had excelled in one of the earlier two jobs, after all, they might have still had it.
The list of coaches to have run at least three teams without having won a Super Bowl includes John Fox, Ted Marchibroda, Wade Phillips, Dan Reeves, Marty Schottenheimer and Norv Turner.

Football fans might notice something about that list: All the coaches on it are white. No Black man has ever been the head coach of three N.F.L. teams. (Romeo Crennel is the closest, having been the coach of two teams and the interim coach of a third team, for part of a season.)
But there are certainly Black coaches whose records resemble those of the white coaches who have had multiple coaching chances. Jim Caldwell, Marvin Lewis, Anthony Lynn, Lovie Smith and, in an earlier era, Dennis Green and Art Shell all won more games than they lost and took teams to the playoffs. They never got a third chance or, in some cases, a second chance to be a head coach.

The Flores lawsuit
Brian Flores seemed as if he might be following this path. Three years ago, he took over the Miami Dolphins, after the team had only one winning season in the previous 10. Under Flores, Miami had a winning record each of the past two years, coming close to the playoffs both times. Still, the Dolphins fired him last month, and no other team has hired him.

On Tuesday, Flores sued the N.F.L. for racial discrimination. It was a remarkable act of defiance: Flores is only 40 years old, and he is probably hurting his chances of getting another job in the insular, conservative N.F.L. — which also happens to be arguably the country’s most popular form of entertainment.

“It’s hard to speak out,” Flores said on CBS yesterday. “But,” he added, “this is bigger than football. This is bigger than coaching.”

Robert Griffin III, a former quarterback, tweeted: “Brian Flores effectively had to end his chances at coaching in the N.F.L. to point out what we already know about discrimination in the hiring process for head coaches in the N.F.L.”
The details of the lawsuit read like something out of a television drama. They include screenshots of an alleged text exchange last month in which Bill Belichick, the league’s most successful coach, mistakenly congratulated Flores on getting the job as the head coach of the New York Giants. (Belichick has not confirmed that the exchange happened.)

Flores believes that Belichick meant to send the text to a different coach named Brian — Brian Daboll, who is white. Flores said that when he received the text, he was preparing for his own interview with the Giants. When he realized the text was not intended for him, he understood that Giants executives had already chosen somebody else.


The text exchange included as part of Flores’s lawsuit. An obscenity has been obscured.


Why might the Giants have wanted to interview Flores after having decided to hire Daboll? The N.F.L. requires every team to interview at least one nonwhite candidate for any head coaching job. By conducting a pro forma interview with Flores, the Giants would have been technically following the rule.
Lewis, the former coach of the Cincinnati Bengals, said yesterday that he once had a sham interview with the Carolina Panthers. Lewis said that they had already decided to hire Fox — one of the white coaches who would eventually run three different teams.

Evidence of racism
Finding ironclad proof of racial discrimination is rarely easy, especially in an individual case. And not every allegation of racism is accurate or fair. But the evidence that the N.F.L. has engaged in a pattern of discrimination against Black coaches is strong:

• A 2019 academic analysis commissioned by the N.F.L. confirmed that Black coaches were less likely to receive second chances. “In the NFL,” The Atlantic’s Jemele Hill recently wrote, “Black coaches are expected to perform miracles quickly, and when they don’t, it usually costs them their job.”
• In a 32-team league where most players are Black — and that has long been the case — only one current head coach is Black. He is Mike Tomlin, who has one of the highest winning percentages of any active coach.
• Teams have also been reluctant to hire Black coaches as offensive coordinator — a job that often leads to head coaching positions, as Tyler Tynes noted in The Ringer. An academic study concluded that the low rate at which teams hired Black candidates for coordinator jobs was the No. 1 reason that white head coaches dominate the league.
• Even when Black coordinators succeed in those jobs, they are sometimes passed over for white candidates with weaker résumés. In last year’s Super Bowl, both offensive coordinators — Eric Bieniemy of the Kansas City Chiefs and Byron Leftwich of the Tampa Bay Buccaneers — were Black. Neither has become a head coach, even as 14 teams have hired new coaches since the end of last season.
For more

Kurt Streeter has written about Bieniemy’s sterling coaching credentials, and Robert O’Connell has explained Leftwich’s success.

The Times has broken several stories on emails among prominent N.F.L. figures — involving racist remarks from Jon Gruden, a longtime coach; and a joke by the N.F.L.’s top lawyer that outreach to Latino fans would be less relevant after the construction of a border wall.
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dfosterf (11-Nov) : I believe Zero was being sarcastic
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beast (5-Nov) : In other news, the Green Bay Packers have signed Zero2Cool to update their website 😋 jk
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Mucky Tundra (5-Nov) : Getting a 7th rounder from the Stillers
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