MintBaconDrivel
2 years ago
This is good news, right?
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wpr
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2 years ago
I don't mind SOME promoting from within. The way to get coaches in the first place is with the understanding that if they do a good job they will get a chance to move up the coaching ladder.

It is a little disconcerting that every single coach that has been promoted was the best option for the team.

I'm not saying he isn't qualified. I have to trust MLF on this. It does make me wonder a little bit if he truly is the best.
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Zero2Cool
2 years ago

I don't mind SOME promoting from within. The way to get coaches in the first place is with the understanding that if they do a good job they will get a chance to move up the coaching ladder.

It is a little disconcerting that every single coach that has been promoted was the best option for the team.

I'm not saying he isn't qualified. I have to trust MLF on this. It does make me wonder a little bit if he truly is the best.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Considering two of the Packers staff was plucked away for promotions, I'm going to have to just trust Matt LaFleur here. Now, if we promote within on a potential coordinator vacancy, AGAIN, I will lose my shit. That's different though. Our offense has been fine, so yeah, promoting within makes sense. If you have a phase of the game that is failing miserably, I do not think you promote within, but rather go outside the organization ... like WAY outside. Far. FAR!
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beast
2 years ago

This is good news, right?

Originally Posted by: MintBaconDrivel 



I honestly believe fans can't accurately make judgment calls, weather this is good or bad, as we don't see what or how coaches do enough, except the final team results, but there's so many factors, such a scheme, talent, relationships and other aspects that we the fans truly cannot tell what the best options are.

But there are 32 NFL coaches, and two of them wanted Adam Stenavich as their offensive coordinator.

Also I think we can say that our OL seemed to maximum what they had, despite many injuries, and Rodgers and the quick passing game certainly helped, but also I believe Stenavich was the running game coordinator as well.

So keeping the OL and running game as strong as possible is an extremely key aspect. To this offense.

That being said, I disliked how Mike McCarthy kept promoting from within, to the point I felt like coaches were out of place of their natural coaching positions.

Like a guy who's coach RB all of his career was coaching QBs. With all due respect, people sometimes look down on running back coaches at the more instinctual position... and I've wondered if that's what has heard Chief's OC Eric Bieniemy back, he's basically always coached RBs... Until he became offensive coordinator. Well that, and he's African-American (very few of those are head coaches right now) and all of Andy Reid's offensive coaches who have become head coaches have struggled so far. Reid's defensive and ST coordinators (Bills/Ravens) have had better luck.


But I'll be very interested in how this team tries to improve their offense this offseason. Do you try to improve the OL or get more weapons? Jenkins is probably out, and whom knows how Baktari knee will be next year.


But I do wonder about the decision to select RT Kelly over LT Nijman. I mean I think I understand, Kelly was so dominant I'm the run game, that you didn't want to bench him, but Nijman was clearly better in the passing game and giving Rodgers as much time as possible was key as well. Also, I'm wondering did the consider Kelly at OG and Nijman and Tuner at OG? I mean that's not ideal due to Kelly's 6'7" frame is hard to get low in the interior, but that might of gotten the best 5 on the line at once, and these decisions were probably Stenavich decisions, or at minimum he probably had great input to them.


So bottom line, I doubt we fans have enough information to tell, and can only guess. But in theory keeping the OL and running game going seems smart.
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wpr
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2 years ago

Considering two of the Packers staff was plucked away for promotions, I'm going to have to just trust Matt LaFleur here. Now, if we promote within on a potential coordinator vacancy, AGAIN, I will lose my shit. That's different though. Our offense has been fine, so yeah, promoting within makes sense. If you have a phase of the game that is failing miserably, I do not think you promote within, but rather go outside the organization ... like WAY outside. Far. FAR!

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I understand what you are saying. I am simply wondering out loud what are the odds that he was the best candidate out of the hundred people eligible for the job? He may well be but who else did MLF interview?
Stenavich knows the system. I get that. The turn around time for him to get up and running is much shorter than nearly anyone else but what are the odds that he is THE BEST, MOST qualified person? 10%? 15%? Whatever the number it is not 100%. Coaches do this all the time Mike McCarthy did it too. All the qualified coaches moved on. All the unqualified ones stayed here until the last few years was a coaching disaster. Our coaches were quality and they got new jobs with new teams. Is MLF saying there is not ONE person out there that is the equal to Stenavich?

Here's my concern, Stenavich was a promoted from within. So was Butkus. So was Mo Drayton last year.

Joe Barry was outside the organization and it seems as if the defense has improved. Jerry Gray came over from Minnesota and I think our secondary improved. Also a couple of years ago Jason Vrable went from offensive assistant to WR coach. He only has so much to work with but I am not overwhelmed by the performance of the WR group.

As coaches leave you have to hire from outside the organization at least for the lower positions because you simply don't have enough coaches anymore. So far Matt has only hired two coaches outside both have been better than their predecessor.
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Zero2Cool
2 years ago

I understand what you are saying. I am simply wondering out loud what are the odds that he was the best candidate out of the hundred people eligible for the job? He may well be but who else did MLF interview?
Stenavich knows the system. I get that. The turn around time for him to get up and running is much shorter than nearly anyone else but what are the odds that he is THE BEST, MOST qualified person? 10%? 15%? Whatever the number it is not 100%. Coaches do this all the time Mike McCarthy did it too. All the qualified coaches moved on. All the unqualified ones stayed here until the last few years was a coaching disaster. Our coaches were quality and they got new jobs with new teams. Is MLF saying there is not ONE person out there that is the equal to Stenavich?

Here's my concern, Stenavich was a promoted from within. So was Butkus. So was Mo Drayton last year.

Joe Barry was outside the organization and it seems as if the defense has improved. Jerry Gray came over from Minnesota and I think our secondary improved. Also a couple of years ago Jason Vrable went from offensive assistant to WR coach. He only has so much to work with but I am not overwhelmed by the performance of the WR group.

As coaches leave you have to hire from outside the organization at least for the lower positions because you simply don't have enough coaches anymore. So far Matt has only hired two coaches outside both have been better than their predecessor.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Reports were Packers interviewed a few others for the offensive coordinator position before promoting from within. I believe the same fella who promoted within hired Joe Barry and Jerry Gray. I'm going to fall in the line that LaFleur hired who the thought was the best candidate, otherwise he'd have hired someone else. I suppose all I'm poorly trying to say is, the odds are Matt LaFleur hired who he thought was best for his team. And that's good enough for me.

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beast
2 years ago
I agree with work, that there are probably better options, but we have absolutely no idea whom, and maybe LaFleur doesn't either.


But just randomly throwing this out there... maybe the Packers could look into hiring Rich Gannon as Packers QB coach? As far as I know, he has never coached and doesn't want to coach, but Rodgers mentioned a long time ago, that he was kinda hoping Mike McCarthy would get Rich Gannon as QB coach.

I would of suggested Mark Brunell, but he's QB coach of the Lions.

Also, assuming they get fired, we could still some of the Vikings offensive coaches, as they were running the wide zone as well, since it's Gary Kubiak staff, whom Kyle Shanahan and Matt LaFleur come into the NFL under.

Vikings Senior offensive advisor Rick Dennison, was basically Gary Kubiak's right hand man, won 3 Super Bowls with the Broncos, long time OL and run game coordinator.

Vikings TE coach Brian Pariani has won 4 Super Bowls (mostly with the Broncos, but once with the 49ers when Mike Shanahan was with the 49ers.

Vikings WR coach Keenan McCardell was an NFL WR for 15 years and has coached WRs like Stefon Diggs (while at Maryland), and then Jaguars and Vikings in the pros. Though Nathaniel Hackett has worked with him, and he probably could go to the Broncos too.

I'm sure there are more too.

Klint Kubiak, Gary's son, and he got a surprising large jump to QB coach then offensive coordinator, I but I might offer him an offensive assistant job like he had before joining the Vikings, but not a lead position coach.



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beast
2 years ago

Reports were Packers interviewed a few others for the offensive coordinator position before promoting from within.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


The NFL's Rooney Rule demands that minorities are interviewed, I believe even an external minority as well. When I looked up their coaching history, I thought there was zero percent chance they'd be hired for offensive coordinator as they just recently got their first NFL position coaching role.

So yes, they interviewed some minorities to follow NFL rules. I don't think those guys would of been interviewed for offensive coordinator without the Rooney Rule. Though I believe they only had to do one minority for coordinator position and they did two, and they did one other white guy as well. So they did more than they had too.

But like I said, guys that just got their first NFL position coaching role aren't automatic going become coordinator. Unless they know a guy (like Clint Kubiak when Gary Kubiak stepped down)






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Zero2Cool
2 years ago

The NFL's Rooney Rule demands that minorities are interviewed, I believe even an external minority as well. When I looked up their coaching history, I thought there was zero percent chance they'd be hired for offensive coordinator as they just recently got their first NFL position coaching role.

So yes, they interviewed some minorities to follow NFL rules. I don't think those guys would of been interviewed for offensive coordinator without the Rooney Rule. Though I believe they only had to do one minority for coordinator position and they did two, and they did one other white guy as well. So they did more than they had too.

But like I said, guys that just got their first NFL position coaching role aren't automatic going become coordinator. Unless they know a guy (like Clint Kubiak when Gary Kubiak stepped down)

Originally Posted by: beast 



I'm sure there's something like that, but the two I saw were as white as the cracker typing this.
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wpr
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2 years ago
Yet again Kevin, I understand the,"trust MLF and the process" concept. What I am trying to say and either doing a poor job of it or you don't comprehend what I am saying is Hackett was hired by Denver last Thursday the 27th. Green Bay announced his replacement on Monday the 31st. It sure doesn't feel like Matt had his heart in really really looking for the best candidate. They interviewed 4 candidates inside of a weekend? Seriously? No one was remotely good enough to merit a followup interview?
Somewhere I heard or read that when the press asked him if he was going to promote from within he said yes. That was before Hackett was officially gone. MLF's mind was already made up that he was going to give Adam the job. He merely had to go through the motions in order to satisfy the NFL.

I understand time is of the essence. The draft is only a few months away. The sooner he has his OC in place the sooner they can work on their Big Board. This may well all work out. I sure hope so. No one not even Matt knows for sure.
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Zero2Cool (32m) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (32m) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (32m) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (40m) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (40m) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (1h) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (2h) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (2h) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (3h) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (3h) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (3h) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (3h) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (3h) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (3h) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (3h) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (3h) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (3h) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (3h) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (3h) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (3h) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (3h) : I literally just said it.
packerfanoutwest (3h) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't
Zero2Cool (3h) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.
Zero2Cool (3h) : Yes, if they win one of three, they are lock. If they lose out, they can be eliminated.
packerfanoutwest (3h) : as I just said,,gtheyh are in no matter what
Zero2Cool (3h) : Packers should get in. I just hope it's not 7th seed. Feels dirty.
packerfanoutwest (3h) : If packers lose out, no matter what, they are in
packerfanoutwest (3h) : both teams can not male the playoffs....falcon hold the tie breaker
packerfanoutwest (3h) : if bucs win out they win their division
beast (4h) : Fine, Buccaneers and Falcons can get ahead of us
packerfanoutwest (4h) : falcons are already ahead of us
beast (4h) : Packers will get in
beast (4h) : If Packers lose the rest of their games and Falcons win the rest of theirs, they could pass us... but not gonna happen
packerfanoutwest (4h) : they still are in the playoffs
packerfanoutwest (4h) : If Packers lose the remaining games,,,,at 10-7
Zero2Cool (6h) : We can say it. We don't play.
Mucky Tundra (7h) : But to say they are in is looking past the Saints
Mucky Tundra (7h) : That said, their odds are very favorable with a >99% chance of making the playoffs entering this week's games
Mucky Tundra (7h) : Packers are not in and have not clinched a playoff spot.
buckeyepackfan (8h) : Packers are in, they need to keep winning to improve their seed#.
Mucky Tundra (17h) : Getting help would have been nice, but helping ourselves should always be the plan
beast (17h) : Too bad Seahawks couldn't beat Vikings
bboystyle (17h) : We just need to win Monday night and were in
Mucky Tundra (20h) : Or ties, but let's be real here
Mucky Tundra (20h) : Other scenario was Falcons+Rams losses
Mucky Tundra (20h) : Needed a Falcons loss for a Seahawk loss to clinch
buckeyepackfan (21h) : Am I wring in saying if Tge Vikings beat The Seahawks, The Packers clinch?
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : Agreed; you stinks
Zero2Cool (21-Dec) : I'm not beating anyone. I stinks.
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : rough injury for tank dell. guy can't catch abreak
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