warhawk
15 years ago

Well, if we did a position by position analysis, our O was really, really good in '05. It was just decimated by injuries.

Walker was our #1 WR. He went down in game 1. Fergie was our #3. Yeah, I'd take James Jones over Fergie in a heartbeat. Chatman was our #4 and I'd take Jordy over Chatman in a heartbeat. But let's not forget, Walker was a top tier WR at the time. He was no slouch. It's just we had no depth.

Our OL was actually better in '05 then it is today. Our OL back then was solid, and one thing I'd have to give credit to Sherman for is he built on heck of an OL.

RBs - To be fair, '05 was really better - Green as our starter was still a productive RB. But he went down right away. Then we had Najeh who I liked a lot but he went down. Then Fisher was our main dude and he went down. Then Gado was looking really good and he went down. In '08, how much depth did we have at RB if Grant went down and Jackson went down?

As for the D, didn't we allow more points in '08 then in '05?

Now as far as depth, I'd take the '08 team easily.

"zombieslayer" wrote:





No comparison in the rosters top to bottom. Thanks to the three or four fruitless drafts in a row prior to '05 we had guys getting older and nothing coming up behind them.

I have much more confidence that guys like Sitton, Finley, Lee, and Nelson can give solid contributions and help make this a better football team.

Back in '05 you couldn't find a kid from the previous four drafts good enough to make the damn team, heck, anybodys team.
"The train is leaving the station."
dhazer
15 years ago
2005 vs 2008
QBs= Favre vs Rodgers Favre gets the nod
RBs = Green and Henderson vs Grant and Hall advantage green and Hendo
WRs= Driver and Walker vs Driver and Jennings to be fair its a wash
TE=Franks vs Lee i say Franks
LT = is a wash it was clifton for both
LG = Wells vs Colledge i say Wells
C = Flannagan vs Wells experience wins with Flannagan
RG = Whitticker vs Spitz ill take Spitz on this
RT= a wash seeing it was Taucher both years


K= Longwell vs Crosby Longwell wins
P= Sander vs Frost both suck lol
KR = Chatman vs Blackmon i'm going with another push


LE = wash AK for both years
LDT = Jackson vs Pickett I'm saying another wash
RDT = Jenkins vs Jolly I have to take Cullen in this
RE = KGB vs Montgomery KGB no doubt
LLB = Diggs vs Poppinga going with a push
MLB = is a wash seeing it was Barnett
RLB = Thomas vs Hawk have to go with Hawk
CB = Carroll and Harris vs Harris and Woodson no brainer here
FS= Roman vs Rouse i'll take Roman
SS = i just made it a wash because collins played fs in 2005

So the way i see it the 2005 team was better, with 9 checks to only 2 for 2008 and 9 pushes.


In case your wondering i picked the 05 team and now i'm showing why i say it. So have fun remember we were killed with injuries in the key spots that year in WRS and RBS hell Gado came from being a school teacher like 2 weeks before he started a game.
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be πŸ™‚ (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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zombieslayer
15 years ago
Well, I'm trying to evaluate this fairly. If you look at the '05 OL, it was better than it is now. Our Ts were at the top of their game, and the middle of the OL was better than it is now.

The D though in '05 allowed 344 points. But the '08 D allowed 380.

If we do an analysis position by position, the '05 team would probably have better starters, but the '08 team would have more depth.

So which team would I rather have? The '08 team. But let's give credit where it's due. The '05 had the better OL and better starters on several other positions.

Grant vs Green - Green in '03 was way better than Grant in '07, but he'd already been declining in '05 before that season ending injury.

Our DBs were definitely better in '08, although we had a better DL in '05, like it or not. Kampy in '08 > Kampy in '05. But KGB in '05 > what we had on the other side in '08. In the middle, loved Grady Jackson of course, and Jenkins played the whole season in '05 if I'm not mistaken. Jenkins was starting off '08 much better than the '05 Jenkins, but then got hurt (and the whole DL went to ****).

As much as people on this board knock our LBs, I'd take the '08 LBs over the '05 ones. I think our LBs are fine, and it's the Coaching and the lack of anything on the DL that made our LBs look bad in '08, not the players themselves. '09 will prove me right.
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warhawk
15 years ago
The biggest difference in the '05 team and '08 team is when you reach beyond the surface and see what's there beyond the starters.

Wouldn't it be great if you put your starting lineup out there and they would still be there even seven or eight weeks down the road.

The reality of it is injuries happen. As important as your starting lineup so is the depth behind it.

In '05 the Pack was blessed with these fabulous names to come in and hold the fort:

SAFETY- Earl Little, Marviel Underwood, UDrafted Rooke-A. Bigby

Cornerback- Joey Thomas, Jerron Wishom, Jason Horton, Mike Hawkins, Therrion Fontenot, Patrick Dendy

LB-John Leake, Roy Manning, Robert Harris

OL-Chris White Adrian Klemm, Kevin Berry, Coston (rookie),Wells (w/1yr @ no exp.)

WR- Rod Gardner, Jamal Jones, Chad Lucas, Andre Thurman, Taco Wallace

There's not a guy there that could make the '08 squad other than Wells and Bigby who are here but had 0 PT back then. THEY are both far better now than in '05 and so are we that the rest of those guys are long gone.

Here is an example where we stand today vs. '05

If in '05 Al Harris had gotton hurt our starting CB's would have been Ahmad Carrol and Joey Thomas.

Now go sleep on that egg basket for awhile.
"The train is leaving the station."
dhazer
15 years ago
I still don't understand how people can say we are so deep with talent? Is it because you know the name of the players on last year because from what i seen it isn't that deep. But i guess you have your opinions on Potential from your belief. Btw hows this if Rodgers goes down who do we have?


Now go lay on that egg lol.
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be πŸ™‚ (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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wils0646
15 years ago

2005 vs 2008
QBs= Favre vs Rodgers Favre gets the nod
Fair
RBs = Green and Henderson vs Grant and Hall advantage green and Hendo
Fair, but Green and Davenport got injured and we had nothing behind them
WRs= Driver and Walker vs Driver and Jennings to be fair its a wash
Walker got injured and we had absolutely zero depth after him and DD, I don't agree
TE=Franks vs Lee i say Franks
I'd say more of a wash because Lee has better catching ability and stretched the field more, yet is a worse blocker
LT = is a wash it was clifton for both
Fair
LG = Wells vs Colledge i say Wells
Why? Seriously? Wells is not a better G than Colledge
C = Flannagan vs Wells experience wins with Flannagan
Fair
RG = Whitticker vs Spitz ill take Spitz on this
Fair
RT= a wash seeing it was Taucher both years
Fair


K= Longwell vs Crosby Longwell wins
Fair, although this was the year he started whining about holders
P= Sander vs Frost both suck lol
Completely agree LOL!
KR = Chatman vs Blackmon i'm going with another push
You were going along fine until this one...Blackmon averaged 11.1/return and had 2 TDs. Chatman had a TD but only averaged 8.5. No, I don't think it's a wash.

LE = wash AK for both years
Fair
LDT = Jackson vs Pickett I'm saying another wash
Fair
RDT = Jenkins vs Jolly I have to take Cullen in this
I don't know if you can count this if he's playing another position...
RE = KGB vs Montgomery KGB no doubt
Monty was really not the starter here
LLB = Diggs vs Poppinga going with a push
I would actually give Diggs a little advantage here
MLB = is a wash seeing it was Barnett
Fair
RLB = Thomas vs Hawk have to go with Hawk
Fair
CB = Carroll and Harris vs Harris and Woodson no brainer here
Fair
FS= Roman vs Rouse i'll take Roman
Actually, Collins played FS this year, Collins gets the advantage no doubt
SS = i just made it a wash because collins played fs in 2005
Roman played SS and he was absolutely terrible. I'd take Rouse over him any day

So the way i see it the 2005 team was better, with 9 checks to only 2 for 2008 and 9 pushes.


In case your wondering i picked the 05 team and now i'm showing why i say it. So have fun remember we were killed with injuries in the key spots that year in WRS and RBS hell Gado came from being a school teacher like 2 weeks before he started a game.

"dhazer" wrote:



Warhawk stated the depth point very well.
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warhawk
15 years ago

I still don't understand how people can say we are so deep with talent? Is it because you know the name of the players on last year because from what i seen it isn't that deep. But i guess you have your opinions on Potential from your belief. Btw hows this if Rodgers goes down who do we have?


Now go lay on that egg lol.

"dhazer" wrote:



LOL. You can say that about 30 other teams that lose their starting QB.
Your #1 guy at that spot goes down and your screwed. Period. Who's Chicago putting in if Cutler's dropped?

I named the guys on the '05 team. The bottom line is they stunk. It doesn't take a talent scout to know Williams, Blackmon, Rouse, Bishop, Nelson, Martin, etc. are extreme upgrades over those guys.

All of THESE guys would make other squads in a heartbeat vs. the '05 guys I named who couldn't make a practice squad if that's any help to you.
"The train is leaving the station."
zombieslayer
15 years ago
The thing is though, is anyone willing to acknowledge my point that there were some positions that were actually better in '05 than '08?

I'm seeing this thread going immediately into bickering instead of honest evaluation.
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dhazer
15 years ago
please please tell me what is so great about Martin and Nelson, Blackmon and bishop? Blackmon can't play defensive back, Nelson is 3rd stringer by default and Martin lol gimmie a break. I see the depth of rbs in 2005 in question hell that was our deepest position if you looked at it, how many did we have to use lol.
Just Imagine this for the next 6-9 years. What a ride it will be πŸ™‚ (PS, Zero should charge for this)
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longtimefan
15 years ago

The thing is though, is anyone willing to acknowledge my point that there were some positions that were actually better in '05 than '08?

.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



I think most would agree with that..

As a whole our offense was worse in 05, but maybe as a whole the D was better

We can pick apart every single player, but as the saying goes..

The whole is only as good as the sum of it's parts




And that 05 as a whole was bad
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bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
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Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
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Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (23-Dec) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I literally just said it.
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