Has Aaron Rodgers declined?· Page 2

gbguy20
Veteran Member

5 years ago

A big thing that you and many others are missing is that our receivers suck ass. And they have sucked ass for a while now. For whatever reason, management seems to think using late round/undrafted receivers is a great idea.

Originally Posted by: go.pack.go.

I don't buy this argument. Our ass sucking receivers are getting open all over the field and being ignored/missed. Granted, they are terrible at reacting when "the play breaks down" (rodgers reverts to backyard football) but they shouldn't be asked to do that nearly as often as they are anyway.

BAD EMAIL because the address couldn ot be found, or is unable to receive mail.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

5 years ago

#12

Originally Posted by: go.pack.go.

I used to think this until our WR's went elsewhere and fizzled out of existence. I'm not saying they are world beaters, but there is a difference in how Aaron Rodgers is playing. He is not nearly as decisive as he once was. I am not bashing Rodgers, I am not hating him, but I won't be naive to what is obvious to the eye. I think he used to feel immortal and the injuries have made him realize he's not Superman. I also point to his comments in press conferences that support this. Comments talking about the end of his career. This is natural, this is normal. We were freaking blessed beyond words to have him follow Favre. I do not want any other QB.

We don't have Kyle Rudolph, Adam Thielen and Stefon Diggs kind of receiving threats, but we sure as hell have better than teams like Jaguars, Redskins, etc.

I don't want Rodgers to throw interceptions,. so don't be an idiot by twisting this around -- I think he needs to give the WR's more chances to MAKE PLAYS instead of shouldering it all on himself. We have guys who can go up and get the ball. They just need the opportunities.

go.pack.go.
Veteran Member

5 years ago

#13

Originally Posted by: gbguy20

I would love for you to show film of receivers consistently running wide open “all over the field”. You have obviously been watching a different team.

I’d be foolish to say that Rodgers is playing like he was when he was 30. But for people like you to blame all of the offense’s problems on Rodgers, that’s just idiotic.

KRK
Veteran Member

5 years ago

#14

Z, is there a way to "double thank" a post? If so, I would like to do it for go.pack.go's last post.

Yes, he has declined from "the best player ever at the position" to, "he is really friggin excellent and I wish we had some better wide outs"

In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

5 years ago

#15

Originally Posted by: KRK

Maybe he can go back to throwing guys open instead of waiting for them to be open? Nah, let's ignore what we see other QB's doing and just blame the WR's. We have an OL that is giving him time. He needs his WR's to run routes that he can throw them open. If you question this, look at the games Davante Adams was out. Guess what happened? Yeah, exactly, he can do it. He'll flip that switch and like he's always done, he'll make average WR's look better than they are. He is that good.

The NFL's Next Gen Stats show the WR's are getting separation, and in fact, they are 1st in the NFL.
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And the OL is #1 in pass protection.
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Additionally, what I've been trying to say about not throwing into tight windows, well, there's a stat for that.
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This is why I think and believe Aaron Rodgers himself can flip a switch. The parts are there. The tools are there. And when it's needed, he's going to tear it up.

Porforis
Veteran Member

5 years ago

#16

I wouldn't say Aaron Rodgers is dogshit, but I can see how some would perceive him to be playing like dogshit. I can't say I'd agree fully with that assessment. But, the problem with saying to look at 2017's offense is that it doesn't seem to be producing much worse than what we are now.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

We've already outscored 2017's offense (309 points vs 306 on offense in 2017), on pace to score 74 more points than 2017, on pace to have 487 more offensive yards. Going beyond that, we're on pace to turn the ball over 6 times this year versus 21 in 2017, Time of Possession (31:10 vs 28:36), and it's somewhat easy to see why the defense while it's had major problems, is on pace to give up 52 less points this year than 2017. And why we're on pace for 12-4 instead of 7-9.

Have we been GOOD on offense this year? No. Has Aaron Rodgers been consistent? No. Is this ANYTHING like 2017? Absolutely not.

Frankly, beyond a nigh-impossible thing to quantify such as "looking off", it's pretty hard to pass off most of the differences between Rodgers this year and in years where he's put up bigger numbers as anything more than predominately the result of actually sticking with the run for once, and actually having some success with it.

http://www.nfl.com/player/aaronrodgers/2506363/careerstats

He's had a few dud games a year for almost his entire career. Is he at his peak? Absolutely not. If he was halfway between his peak and where he is now, would the Packers be 11-2 or 12-1 right now instead of 10-3? Probably. Is Rodgers the first, second, third, or fourth thing I'm worried about with this team? Absolutely not.

This is a very average year for ARod apart from 2011.

Zero2Cool
Elite Member Topic Starter

5 years ago

#17

Originally Posted by: Porforis

Exactly. We aren't really outproducing 2017 by all that much. Just as I said. To me, it doesn't seem like we're producing helluva lot better than 2017. I see the same struggles in 2019 that I saw in 2017 with the exception of less turn overs and more scoring from the rushing game.

We are better in 2019 offensively, but not by what I would expect with having a healthy Aaron Rodgers and potent running game. We have a defense that has two guys in double digits. We're getting more interceptions. Our offense is turning the ball over less. 2017 we had 22 takeaways and 25 giveaways. 2019 we have 20 takeaways and just 9 giveaways. I'm overs-simplifying things here, but consuming everything from turnovers, conversion percentages, HEALTH of the team -- it feels like we should be out performing 2017 scoring by more than barely 3 points a game.

I'm not saying our offense is trash, garbage, and needs a complete rebuild. I am saying we have the ability to do more with the opportunities. And I also am confident we will. 2017 and 2019 feel similar in some aspects, but in 2019 we are WINNING and I believe Aaron Rodgers is going to light up teams in the playoffs.

One major difference from 2017 and 2019 ... we have seen dominate running game, dominant passing game in 2019. We didn't see that at all in 2017. And that has me hopeful.

Cheesey
Preferred Member

5 years ago

#18

Does Rodgers not trust his current group of WRs?
I think he just needs to take more chances, and like was said already, throw guys open.
That’s the only way we will win going into the playoffs.

Porforis
Veteran Member

5 years ago

#19

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool

My point is that despite what might seem to be the case at a glace... We are producing a lot better than 2017, and not much different than an average post-2011 year. Here's 20 minutes of work in excel to better illustrate things.

Are we underperforming? Yes. Do I think it's really different than what we've been seeing for basically all of Rodgers' career, especially when removing the outliers? Not measurably.

beast
Select Member

5 years ago

#20

Yes Rodgers has absolutely declined!

Part of it might be a new system that he's still learning, but I think there is a systematic flaw that Rodgers bought I to way too much...

Part of MM's system was to keep the play alive as long as possible to find the big play down the field.... Rodgers mastered this and has made amazing things happen with it!

But while Rodgers is doing a great job keeping the play alive for the big play, he's not getting the ball out of his hands, even when there is an open guy short, as he's looking for the if play.

This allows teams to drop 7 into coverage as they know he's over protective of the ball, which will make him hold it even longer and give the 4 rushers longer time to get to him.

Also Rodgers vision just doesn't seem to be the same... guys are sometimes getting open and he just doesn't seem to see it (can't see the whole field all the time like we can with 22-film but I think he used to be much better at knowing where to look, with a lot of matchups options with a deep group of talented WRs, which he no longer has.

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Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.

Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.

Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol

Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?

packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?

packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022

packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.

packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....

beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago

beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?

packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems

beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason

beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick

packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back

Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous

Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D

packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show

TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half

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