Zero2Cool
6 years ago
Free Agency is shark invested water. We should stay away. Draft and Develop!
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buckeyepackfan
6 years ago

Free Agency is shark invested water. We should stay away. Draft and Develop!

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



That will get you fired!
😁
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
6 years ago
This forum is about ideas and a draft board changes tremendously contingent up FA signings. All of us agree with in OL and DL (incl. edge) help. Thus, naming names is essential or we are just twiddling our thumbs.
Beast said

I think sacks are a bit over rated. Pressure is just as important. Granted, most of your guys getting lots of sacks also generate....

SPOT ON. It is about team sacks and pressures. If one guy on the edge doesn't do his job, but gets lots of sacks, it hurts overall defensive performance.
Back to naming names...
[list][*]Preston Smith seems like he could be a reasonably low cost, good value pick-up. He is young, could start/rotate in. Kirk Olivadotti knows him and if he likes him, expect the Packers will make a strong effort to land him IMO[/list] [list][*]Nick Perry. I know I will be roundly criticized, but I am willing to give the guy another shot. When healthy (not often enough) (i) he has been terrific as setting an edge on runs and (ii) in pass rush (per above). (iii) He has had an extensive off-season to heal up. (iv) And you save very little by cutting him now[/list]
In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
Rockmolder
6 years ago

Then why the hell are you bitching at us to post names if you fucking won't? You're being a hypocrite!

Rockmolder was extremely nice going out of his way to get you a link and indulge you TWICE... and you blew him off!


Originally Posted by: beast 



I'm not bothered, although I don't know why you'd do your best to steer a discussion in a certain way if you have zero intention of joining in.

Nick Perry. I know I will be roundly criticized, but I am willing to give the guy another shot. When healthy (not often enough) (i) he has been terrific as setting an edge on runs and (ii) in pass rush (per above). (iii) He has had an extensive off-season to heal up. (iv) And you save very little by cutting him now



Good points. I agree that he's shown he can play, that $ 11.1 million in dead cap is way too much when he's hitting for $ 14.4 when on the roster and that the time off may have been good for him.

I don't know if you can count on him, though. I'd treat him like a bonus if he does produce, but go into the draft and free agency like you have a gap to fill.
sschind
6 years ago

That will get you fired!
😁

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 



Yeah, but not for a long time.
beast
  • beast
  • Select Member Topic Starter
6 years ago

Free Agency is shark invested water. We should stay away. Draft and Develop!

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 

To a certain degree yes... or just be careful when you talk your Gamble's.

Beast said SPOT ON.

Originally Posted by: KRK 

Thanks, but I think that's sschind's comment

That's the main reason I think sacks are a bit over rated. Pressure is just as important.

Originally Posted by: sschind 



IMO[/list] [list]

  • Nick Perry. I know I will be roundly criticized, but I am willing to give the guy another shot. When healthy (not often enough) (i) he has been terrific as setting an edge on runs and (ii) in pass rush (per above). (iii) He has had an extensive off-season to heal up. (iv) And you save very little by cutting him now[/list]

    Originally Posted by: KRK 

  • I don't think the $24 million you would save by cutting Perry before the 3rd day of the new league year should be considered very little...
    Yes you would only save $3 million in 2019 cap, but $21 million over the next two years... that's because all the dead cap space for the three years attacks the first year only (unless you use the post June designation).

    So if they release Perry before his bonus on the 3rd day of the new year, Packers can save $24 million over 3 years... Next year I believe they can save $14 million over two years.

    I'm not bothered, although I don't know why you'd do your best to steer a discussion in a certain way if you have zero intention of joining in.

    Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 



    I probably over reacted but I HATE seeing nice people jerked around... and he just blew you off when you gave him respect of listening and willing to follow him.

    UserPostedImage
    KRK
    • KRK
    • Veteran Member
    6 years ago
    I find the cap rules confusing, so I am not looking for an argument, but I would love an explanation. So if someone could talk to me like I'm ignorant, but not stupid, I would appreciate it. 😁 I am guessing others would as well.
    Beast said:

    So if they release Perry before his bonus on the 3rd day of the new year, Packers can save $24 million over 3 years... Next year I believe they can save $14 million over two years.


    So here is my questions predicated on my understanding (which may not be correct):
    [list]
  • If they chose to keep Perry, what is the incremental cap hit to keeping him this year?[/list][list][*]If they cut him I am assuming they could not use the (dead cap) money on others...Correct?[list][*]When you say they save $24mm, I had thought they couldn't spend the money on others...is this assumption correct?[/list]
  • The net of my rationale, which may not have been correct, was that if (i) they only had to spend an additional $3mm AND (ii) they could just as easily cut him after next year if he weren't working out AND (iii) they couldn't spend the money on anyone else then I think they should take the risk.
    In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
    beast
    • beast
    • Select Member Topic Starter
    6 years ago

    I find the cap rules confusing, so I am not looking for an argument, but I would love an explanation. So if someone could talk to me like I'm ignorant, but not stupid, I would appreciate it. 😁 I am guessing others would as well.

    Originally Posted by: KRK 


    I've never been the best at explaining things (even when I know them extremely well), but I'll surely give it a shot, but wait to start off by noting a couple of things...

    The NFL cap is confusing for two main reasons
    1) It's the NFL's own version of an single year accounting system (when normally people are used to Cash basis system and multiple years)

    2) The Media, fans, etc, bounce back and forth between the cap accounting system, and the normal cash basis system that we're used to, and that just add a hell lot of confusion to it, as you have to then break them apart in your mind.

    I would strongly encourage anyone trying to understand NFL contracts, to mainly follow the money (and averages), and ignore the cap as much as possible... as it's a misleading, complex, 1 year accounting system, that all evens out at the end of players contract, but not during it.... so instead of following the accounting, FOLLOW THE MONEY!


    So here is my questions predicated on my understanding (which may not be correct):
    [list]

  • If they chose to keep Perry, what is the incremental cap hit to keeping him this year?[/list]
  • [list]
  • If they cut him I am assuming they could not use the (dead cap) money on others...Correct?
  • [list]
  • When you say they save $24mm, I had thought they couldn't spend the money on others...is this assumption correct?[/list]
  • The net of my rationale, which may not have been correct, was that if (i) they only had to spend an additional $3mm AND (ii) they could just as easily cut him after next year if he weren't working out AND (iii) they couldn't spend the money on anyone else then I think they should take the risk.

    Originally Posted by: KRK 



    Perry's contract on spotrac
    https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/nick-perry-9838/ 


    1) That wording is confusing because you're mixing the multiple year concept (incremental) with the single year account system term (cap hit)... so I would prefer to the term incremental cost hit (the cost of keeping Perry another year is) the amount of cash he's actually earning this year (yearly earning).. which is $10,737,500 (located on the very far right on spotrac contract).

    That yearly earning (unearned so far), plus signing bonus average (earned already) is what equals the single year cap hit.... so most of the time people are using the cap hit as far as what a guy is going to make/cost the team, but that's mistaken because that signing bonus average makes the cap number misleading about what they're actually earning that year.

    2) Correct, dead money is dead (unusable)... actually dead money is usually the players signing bonus money that was paid to them when they signed the contract... so it's already in the players bank account... so teams can't use it, because it's already been used.

    The reason they spread it over the first 5 years of a players contract is because the accounting system is a one year system, and teams would be over the limit if they had to account for the entire signing bonus in a single year. Example, Aaron Rodgers cap hit would be $66.9 million in 2018 (37.75% of the entire cap) if teams were forced to account for it all in the season they got it... so instead teams spread it over 5 years to give them some balance on the single year accounting system. So instead the Packers cap hit on Rodgers is only $20.9 million in 2018 and the rest is spread out on the next four years.


    3) No, the $24 million I'm talking about is LIVE money savings... and my math is wrong... as I freaking screwed up and mixed the accounting system (of saving $3 million next year) and the cash system (of saving $21 million over the last two years)... it's so freaking easy to do...

    If I'm doing this correctly now it's actually more than $24 million... if they cut Perry before the $4.8M roster bonus is due on (3/15/2019), then the Packers actually save $31.7375 million over the next three years (I think, my brain is staying to fry from looking at this too much)

    But Cash it's simply... Perry's Yearly Salary is $10,737,500 + $10.6 + $10.4 = $31.7375

    Cap is more complex... but the Cap Hits are $14.4375 + $14.3 + $14.1 = $42.8375 MINUS the one year Dead Cap hit of $11.1 and you also get $31.7375.... so the cash and accounting balance... (but only $14.4375 minus the $11.1 = $3.3375 in the first year, 2019).

    Just following the cash and average salary is so much easy than paying attention to the cap. Sorry I screwed up mixed the Accounting and Cash with the $24 😞 ... it's so easy to do... I hope this helped some in your understanding contracts a bit better... though not completely I'm sure as it is confusing.
    UserPostedImage
    KRK
    • KRK
    • Veteran Member
    6 years ago
    Beast....sincere thanks....a truly helpful and excellent post.
    That really changes my opinion on Perry....his health history may not merit the risk. I hope they could restructure him as I think he is a really good player, if healthy.
    Now go watch the excellent Saints Rams game
    In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
    Rockmolder
    6 years ago
    Looks like pretty much everyone who posted in this thread is a happy customer today. Never imagined that.
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    Zero2Cool (44m) : Packers star Howton, first NFLPA prez, dies at 95 😔
    dfosterf (4h) : Apparently it is too complicated for several to follow your simple instructions, but I digress
    dfosterf (4h) : Zero- Did you see what I posted about Voice of Reason and his wife? She posted over at fleaflicker that they are both "In"
    Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : Well, not crazy, it makes sense. Crazy I didn't notice/find it earlier
    Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : it's crazy how one stored procedure to get data bogged everything down for speed here
    dfosterf (7-Aug) : to herd cats or goldfish without a bowl. They reminded me of the annual assembly of our fantasy league
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    dfosterf (7-Aug) : Wife of reason posted on the in/out thread on fleaflicker that both she and vor are in
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    Mucky Tundra (7-Aug) : Tbh, I can never tell the difference in speed unless it's completely shitting the bed
    Zero2Cool (7-Aug) : Sure does feel like site is more snappy
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    Mucky Tundra (6-Aug) : Travis Glover placed on IR; seasons over for him
    Zero2Cool (6-Aug) : found bad sql in database, maybe site faster now?
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    Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : *to be able
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    Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : Oh I know; I was just exploring and it blew my mind that you could trade picks because of the whole reordering thing
    Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : Zero, I think I preferred my offer: your 1st for my 15th rounder
    Zero2Cool (4-Aug) : Keep in mind, we do a draft reorder once all members locked in
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    Mucky Tundra (4-Aug) : Hey i didn't know we could trade picks in fantasy
    Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : Update: Rock has tried a cheese curd, promises it's not his last
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    Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : you're right, we never did leave, the site just went down :P
    Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : Rock claims to have never eaten a cheese curd
    Zero2Cool (3-Aug) : We did not leave.
    Mucky Tundra (3-Aug) : Family Night! WE ARE SO BACK!
    Mucky Tundra (2-Aug) : To this day, I'm still miffed about his 4 TD game against Dallas on Thanksgiving going to waste
    Martha Careful (2-Aug) : Congratulations Sterling Sharpe. He was terrific and I loved watching him play.
    beast (2-Aug) : I believe it's technically against the CBA rules, but Jerry just calls it a simple unofficial chat... and somehow gets away with it.
    beast (2-Aug) : Jerry Jones is infamous for ̶n̶e̶g̶o̶t̶i̶a̶t̶i̶n̶g̶ chatting with players one on one... and going around the agent.
    Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : Oo just saw a blurb saying that Dallas negotiated directly with Parsons and not through his agent
    Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : I assumed that both guys will get paid, just a matter of when or how we get there
    Zero2Cool (1-Aug) : McLaurin nor Micah going anywhere. They will get money
    Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : the Synder years or do they take care of one of their own?
    Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : Do the Commanders risk losing a top WR with an emerging QB just because he's turning 30 and potentially risk damaging the rebuild from
    Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : Turns 30 this September, plays at a high level and Washington has some cap space I believe
    Mucky Tundra (1-Aug) : More interesting is Washington with Terry McLaurin
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    Zero2Cool (1-Aug) : Micah pulling a Myles with trade request
    beast (1-Aug) : Packers should make some cheese forks
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