ILikeThePackers39
16 years ago

Count me in with the "I don't see how BJack's overrated" group - I'd say he's the opposite and needs to be given more reps. Which leads me to...

"dfosterf" wrote:



I have been waiting for this type of post, this is why I rank him in the overrated group.

In limited fresh carries later in games and against a hapless Lions defense he shined.. now the Bjack needs more carries train is rolling throughout the fan base..

Come to camp healthy and win your role young man.

BTW... I know it is a stretch to a point, but damn this Johnny come lately routine of us fans is sometimes tiring.. lol.

Grant was the next big thing last season, proved it over the course of a number of games, but now is dog crap.. ;)

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:




Well, I think (probably) that I've been consistent on BJack - I thought he looked good all last year (not just against the Lions) and I was disappointed that he didn't get more touches, especially when Grant was struggling. Put simply, he ran angrier last season than Grant did, and when your line isn't giving you a lot of help you better run angry. I don't study film or scrutinize anything to the level that a lot of you folks do, but from what I recall, BJack was fighting for his inches and Grant was dropping at the first contact.

Which is actually not to say Grant is dog crap - he's a big strong guy with good speed, and there isn't any reason that he shouldn't do well this upcoming season. We don't need an AP-type back in our system, so if he and Jackson can rack up 1500+ between them I think we'll be sitting pretty.

And yes, RB is the one position I'm full of opinions on, since I used to play that position. :icon_smile:

"pack93z" wrote:



It is not very often I disagree with you, as a matter of fact, I can't remember the last time that I did. What I remember is that Grant was hitting the line hard, yet not making gains, (I thought he ran VERY "angry") more often than I care for (the not making gains part). I saw definite improvement in Jackson, but I sure as heck understand why Grant got the carries. My gosh, people were calling for Jackson all last year...it reminded me of "popular back-up quarterback syndrome" more than reflective of his actual accomplishments. I still hearken back to the previous year when he WAS the "go to" guy, and FAILED. I blame neither Grant nor Jackson, but still want to re-emphasize what the coaches apparently already knew... our o-line cannot create a friggin' hole in the first place, and in those conditions, Grant is the better back. Throw a stat out if you like, but I'd submit that when Jackson was out there, the d was thinking pass.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:




Well, I don't do stats - not because I don't believe in them, but because, frankly, I'm lazy. I just go by what I see and what my gut tells me - and I don't at all disagree that Grant is the better back. I also think Jackson's got a ton of potential and what I recall (hazily, at this point - I'm sure it wouldn't hurt to revisit some games and refresh that memory) is Grant going down more often last year (especially early - if memory serves he continually improved throughout the season) at first contact than Jackson did. That may well have been due to the hamstring issue, and I certainly have not given up on him - I think he's got the physical tools to be a 1600+ yards-per-season guy, though our current system isn't going to get him enough carries to do that.

I simply don't think Jackson is overrated - I think he's a little underrated, mostly because he got hurt so quickly his rookie year. I think a lot of fans decided he was soft, and then when Grant came on they forgot him.

Now, as for everyone calling for Jackson last year, I do agree with you on that point - it was silly, and while I was certainly wanting him to get more touches, I didn't support the idea of him supplanting Grant as the number one back, other than in case of injury.

I've also been wrong about running backs more than I've been right, so I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to take what I say on the matter without a good-sized grain of salt.
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Zero2Cool
16 years ago
Saying Jackson should be starter over Grant because of his yards per carry would be like saying that Rodgers should be MVP after no picks through a few games.

The more carries you get, the less your average is. Some run plays are set up to be jus 2 - 3 yard pops and of course some are there to break it the distance. It's backs who make the 2 - 3 yard pops into 12 yard plus gains that are special. (i.e. Barry Sanders)
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Dulak
16 years ago

Saying Jackson should be starter over Grant because of his yards per carry would be like saying that Rodgers should be MVP after no picks through a few games.

The more carries you get, the less your average is. Some run plays are set up to be jus 2 - 3 yard pops and of course some are there to break it the distance. It's backs who make the 2 - 3 yard pops into 12 yard plus gains that are special. (i.e. Barry Sanders)

"SlickVision" wrote:



I'm going to agree and disagree with what you said ...
agree that the less carries generally more yards (could be because the other team doesnt expect you to run the ball; you are less tired/beat up ... want to make a bigger impression? various things).

Then again jackson looks like a bigger/stronger runner. I like his style.
They always say grant is a downhill runner (not sure where these hills are) 😉
ie grant his the hole and runs as fast as he can.
zombieslayer
16 years ago
I don't think it's fair to blame AR for being 6-10. If anyone's to blame for losing the close games, it's MM.

Why? I'll explain.

When we have a small lead, MM starts getting all conservative. Also, AR was near perfect in the red zone, yet we keep running two out of 3 plays. We need to stop doing that. If you have a QB who is near perfect, you pass 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 3.

We lost so many games by 4 points or less last year.
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ILikeThePackers39
16 years ago

Fine Zero i will say what i really believe about Rodgers *was trying to stay away from it) but to me he is the most over rated player on this team. Alot of posters on here have him as a great qb because of 1 year but yet others match his numbers but they did it because of the offense they run. Hell i have seen people saying he will be our qb for the next 10 years. Do you people realize he has only played 1 year right? Should have let him play out his contract and go from there but nope Ted Thompson's son had to be paid after what 6 games? Ted Thompson is also over rated he had 1 winning season but yet everyone is saying he is doing the right thing.

"porky88" wrote:



You just don't like him because he's not Brett Favre or whatever. I mean come on. That's what it comes down too. A select few of fans will not like Rodgers until he wins a Super Bowl. If he never does, he'll be overrated and disliked in their opinion. 49er fans felt that way about Steve Young.

Paying Rodgers is like paying a draft pick. In that case, it's not a real problem. Actually, Rodgers' contract is probably about what Matthew Stafford will make this year. It's right on par with Matt Ryan's deal just about and while I like Ryan better as a pro going forward, Rodgers did put up better numbers.

"dhazer" wrote:



I would say that a lot of those people won't like Rodgers even if he wins two superbowls, and here's why:

1. They see him as the reason Brett got "railroaded" (see it from their perspective - that's what they think went down) out of GB. They think he was behind the scenes agitating and creating an environment where the FO felt they HAD to make a choice. They will never forgive him for this, and more importantly they'll never forgive him for not being Brett Favre.

2. He is inextricably linked to Thompson, who is inextricably linked to the Favre soap opera. He is thought of as "Ted's son" and a million other inaccurate things. Those that hate Thompson will always hate Rodgers by extension.

Packers fans are not normal fans, as we all know. For some of them, Favre was, is, and will always be a golden god, and none of them will be happy until Thompson and Rodgers are gone - and if you think those people aren't willing to sit through as much losing as necessary to see that happen, you're underestimating just how rabid about this they are.

Where DHazer is absolutely correct is that Rodgers has only started @ the position for one year, and football history is littered with guys who rocked for one season and then petered out. Where he's absolutely wrong is that you do NOT leave your best viable option at the QB position twisting in the wind when you know that roughly a third of the other NFL teams would be more than happy to pay him handsomely - and by no means do you do so if that QB is already taking metric shit-tons of heat from psychotic Packers fans (I mean, really - who wouldn't rather go to another team and be greeted as a hero instead of spat on as a Judas?) for no other reason than he happened to be second on the depth chart when Favre left town. You pay him if you have any indication that he can get the job done, because you have nothing better @ that position.

And there is where the Thompson/Rodgers haters really screw the pooch. Other than the totally non-plausible "Bring Brett back!" argument, what alternative to Rodgers have they ever suggested? Who is their choice to play starting QB for the Packers? I've yet to hear one. All we ever hear or read is that Rodgers is going to fail - we never hear who SHOULD be the Packers QB. And until someone can answer that question, all the hand-wringing and angry typing adds up to a big fat goose egg - it's clear that they're not concerned about watching a winning team, just hell-bent hoping that a couple guys they don't like will lose their jobs.
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zombieslayer
16 years ago
Well, I may become a Ted Thompson hater if we have another 6-10 season. However, love AR. He's going to be a winner, if MM will stop making AR play with one hand tied behind his back.
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Dulak
16 years ago

Well, I may become a Ted Thompson hater if we have another 6-10 season. However, love Aaron Rodgers. He's going to be a winner, if Mike McCarthy will stop making Aaron Rodgers play with one hand tied behind his back.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



I noteced that too; we have one of the best passing games in the league and when it came to the red zone. We often ran the ball.

Its tough thou ... we dont have that great of a Oline to protect arod so hes got time to make the throw; and then we dont have the best running game to make the play to the goal line.

basically I am agreeing - we should throw the ball more when it counts. Even screens or something.

*they are planning on making the reg-season longer* I'm def. looking forward to this. Sucks that we only get so many games that could. Theres like 6 months of soccer here in the UK - I need more NFL (hate soccer).
ILikeThePackers39
16 years ago
Just to be sure it doesn't appear that I'm jumping on DHazer, I'm not dead-convinced that Rodgers is some perennial pro-bowler or anything, yet. I do agree that you can't make that kind of determination after a single season, even if it was a very promising season. Where I differ is that I don't have any preconceived bias against the kid - I don't hate him because he's not Favre or because I think he's "Ted Thompson's kid". I don't hate him at all - nor do I love him.

He's got plenty to prove; I'm just willing to allow him to try to prove it.
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Yerko
16 years ago
I wonder if I would get chewed out by anyone for saying I think Nick Barnett is overrated....at his current position.

But I do think he would be better in another position.
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Pack93z
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16 years ago

Just to be sure it doesn't appear that I'm jumping on DHazer, I'm not dead-convinced that Rodgers is some perennial pro-bowler or anything, yet. I do agree that you can't make that kind of determination after a single season, even if it was a very promising season. Where I differ is that I don't have any preconceived bias against the kid - I don't hate him because he's not Favre or because I think he's "Ted Thompson's kid". I don't hate him at all - nor do I love him.

He's got plenty to prove; I'm just willing to allow him to try to prove it.

"ILikeThePackers39" wrote:



Spot on.. that is the approach all Packer fans should have towards Rodgers at this moment.

But I think Ted was a little trigger happy on the timing of his extension.. I know he was playing the cap game, but wee bit risky.
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