Barfarn
  • Barfarn
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
6 years ago
Don’t think there’s enough evidence to deny Kavanaugh’s appointment on sexual allegations; but his own words disqualify him for SCOTUS.

It’s been argued in other threads that Christians, who regularly fail to exhibit Christian behavior, simply means they are not Christians.

Likewise, a SCOTUS justice’s mind must have fidelity to the core principle of laws 24/7. Throughout his testimony he said things that made him look like one of the dumber litigants on People’s court. To wit:

He spoke of wanting justice for the issue and stated he was ready to come in the next day for the hearing. A core principle of our justice system is that both sides need time to prepare their cases. Every defendant wants the trial the next day after the allegations became known.

He said FBI investigations don’t make conclusions, so their input is worthless. A real judge knows Law enforcement’s role is to investigate and establish facts, increasing the odds that the trier of fact makes correct conclusions. There are hundreds of facts that law enforcement could have uncovered that would have given the Senate better odds of getting it right.

He demonstrated a very dull legal mind. He was asked if Mark Judge [the guy alleged to have witnessed the sexual assault] should have been subpoenaed to testify. He said there was no purpose; Sen Leahy then asked him a question about Mark Judge and with a belligerent condescending arrogant bitchy tone he said, “you’ll need to ask him about that?” 😂 He walked right into that; Leahy played him like a god dam fiddle. It was just like on TV, when the prosecutor has no proof and gets the defendant all mad and admits his crime…and it happened in real life to a guy that is to be appointed to SCOTUS 😂. You have got to be kidding????

He said his reputation is so destroyed, he probably could never get a job teaching law...oh but he can be on SCOTUS? They guy's a nut.

He said his family has gone thru hell. How about a Palestinian family in Gaza or a Yemani family that doesn't know where they’re next meal will come from or if they’ll be bombed or shot tomorrow. This guy's a total entitled diva; and his constant blubbering was pathetic and at least 90% contrived!

This is listening to about 45 minutes; so surely there is more.

Moreover, it is now clear he lied to get his current job stating he had no knowledge of documents being stolen the DNC; he lied about his knowledge of his mentor’s [Kozinski, who retired under threat of impeachment] sexual harassments; and he was White House counsel when Bush used a fraudulent WMD strategy to start a war in Iraq and instituted torture programs.

Anyone wanting his confirmation simply has no respect for the role SCOTUS plays as a CHECK AND BALANCE. Americans will get the democracy they deserve!
DarkaneRules
6 years ago
I was completely open minded about this going in, but Judge Kavanaugh's opening statement lost me. I don't know if those were all of his words, but it didn't sound like someone worthy of the highest court in the land to me. He sounded like a talk radio host. He sounded like Chris Matthews on Hardball. I know it's a tough situation, but his temperament and body language was all over the place. Not impressed.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
Cheesey
6 years ago
How would you feel if someone came out and accused you of something from decades ago? How do you prove or disprove something from 20 or 30 years ago?
How many of us did things when we were young that we wish we had not done?
He has plenty of character witnesses from his past and present that back him up as not being that kind of person. Even some liberal people.

Not one of us is perfect. And let’s face it, anyone can throw out an accusation that supposedly happened 30 years ago, just to try to hurt someone that they don’t like.
What bugs me right now is that the same people that are trying to keep him out of the court are the same political party that said it was nobodies business when Bill Clinton had a sexual relationship with Monica, his subordinate, while on duty in the White House , then lied about it under oath.

I guess moral values only count when you can use them against someone you don’t like. Otherwise, it’s ok if it’s “your guy”.
If there was definite proof of this allegation, that would be one thing.
But there isn’t, so why is it a big deal now,30 years after the fact?
I did things that were stupid when I was young, that I wouldn’t do now. (No, I never forced myself on a woman) But everyone has some skeletons in their closets that they wouldn’t want out.
Right now we have a guy in Wisconsin that’s running for political office that has been arrested 9 times! Including theft and drunk driving. And it’s not from 30 years ago. Yes, he’s a liberal Democrat.
Should his not so distant past keep him from political office? I would say so, because he has shown his lack of obeying the law as his way of life.
One time, maybe even two times, you could say is s mistake. But NINE TIMES? That’s a lifestyle.

Kavanaugh has shown his lifestyle as a law abiding citizen, respectful of women.
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Barfarn
  • Barfarn
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
6 years ago

How would you feel if someone came out and accused you of something from decades ago?

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



I wouldn't be great; but I'd respond with poise. And NO valid SCOTUS nominee would feel the way Kavanaugh felt. Often true character is revealed when someone's in the fire.

He felt panicked, belligerent, blubbering, combative and EVASIVE. Jesus wouldn’t have acted like that; so it was a demonstration of unchristian behavior. Do you have any idea what would happen in his courtroom if a witness responded to a lawyer’s questions like that? He feels the rules of decorum that are a critical component of due process simply don’t apply to him. A true judge at heart would be incapable of disrespecting the system like he did; he’s a disgrace.

A truthful person acts like Ford [calm, poised, respectful, direct answers to questions], a guilty person acts like Kavanaugh [Angry, unhinged, refusing to answer most questions from the “adversary,” filibustering with nonsensical diatribes knowing the adversary is on a time limit]. An innocent man wants FULL investigation and TIME to prove their case. An innocent man wouldn't bold-face LIE about the misogyny in his yearbook.

And I’ll tell ya this: the way he could instantly morph for Jekyll to Hyde and back 20 times depending on which party was asking the question is very strong evidence that this guy is not mentally balanced, he might be a monster. He is a political hack with zero respect for the Job.

His appointment is designed to ERODE SCOTUS' power under the Constitution and undermine what's left of our democracy.
Porforis
6 years ago

How would you feel if someone came out and accused you of something from decades ago? How do you prove or disprove something from 20 or 30 years ago?

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



I wouldn't like it. The reasons as to why would depend on whether or not I actually did the thing in question. You generally don't prove or disprove something from 20 or 30 years ago, and yet you seem to be focusing your sympathies squarely on the accused, and not the accuser. As you've already come to judgement on this. Which is precisely why people are afraid to come forward.

How many of us did things when we were young that we wish we had not done?

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



Plenty, but I've never tried to rape anyone. There's a difference between doing stupid shit that endangers your own life that I'm sure all of us has done, and maybe even some illegal stuff, but if you tried to rape someone 30 years ago - you can't handwave it away as "boys will be boys" or "that was a long time ago" or "Hey you've been a great person since then, guess you get a free pass"

He has plenty of character witnesses from his past and present that back him up as not being that kind of person. Even some liberal people.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



Tell me, what sort of a person is a rapist? I mean hell, how many priests, pillars of their community, done a lifetime of legitimate public service and countless selfless deeds and no doubt treated 99.999% of people with complete and utter respect... Ended up having molested kids? What about revered sports coaches?

My point being, more often than not a rapist isn't that homeless weirdo that hangs out in the park. It's a person that has power and influence in the community. That power and influence oftentimes is enough by itself to keep people quiet.


Not one of us is perfect. And let’s face it, anyone can throw out an accusation that supposedly happened 30 years ago, just to try to hurt someone that they don’t like.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



I don't get the point of this statement. Yes of course anybody can claim anything. She mentioned him by name multiple times in therapy years before they even started whispering about him being appointed to the supreme court. There is actual evidence of this. This doesn't prove that he did it, it just proves that she's thought that he was the one that did it for years. Which frankly makes me roll my eyes at the "made up lies to hurt a supreme court nominee!" suggestion.

What bugs me right now is that the same people that are trying to keep him out of the court are the same political party that said it was nobodies business when Bill Clinton had a sexual relationship with Monica, his subordinate, while on duty in the White House , then lied about it under oath.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



That bothers me too. I'm also bothered by the fact that the same people that are trying their darndest to appoint him are the same political party that pounded their chests about what Bill Clinton's actions meant for the decency of amercian society and that the claims must be investigated. Imagine that, both parties change their tunes constantly based on whatever's politically convenient!

I guess moral values only count when you can use them against someone you don’t like. Otherwise, it’s ok if it’s “your guy”.
If there was definite proof of this allegation, that would be one thing.
But there isn’t, so why is it a big deal now,30 years after the fact?

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



Because someone's life was permanently damaged by those actions, and when the person that did this to you is nominated to become a LIFETIME member of the supreme court.... I mean, wouldn't YOU want people to know he's not the saint he's claiming? Should she just shut up? Should children molested by priests decades ago just shut up because hey, it's not a big deal now right?

Kavanaugh has shown his lifestyle as a law abiding citizen, respectful of women.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



I would also ask you if that logic of yours would extend to priests molesting children.
Porforis
6 years ago

I wouldn't be great; but I'd respond with poise. And NO valid SCOTUS nominee would feel the way Kavanaugh felt. Often true character is revealed when someone's in the fire.

He felt panicked, belligerent, blubbering, combative and EVASIVE. Jesus wouldn’t have acted like that; so it was a demonstration of unchristian behavior. Do you have any idea what would happen in his courtroom if a witness responded to a lawyer’s questions like that? He feels the rules of decorum that are a critical component of due process simply don’t apply to him. A true judge at heart would be incapable of disrespecting the system like he did; he’s a disgrace.

A truthful person acts like Ford [calm, poised, respectful, direct answers to questions], a guilty person acts like Kavanaugh [Angry, unhinged, refusing to answer most questions from the “adversary,” filibustering with nonsensical diatribes knowing the adversary is on a time limit]. An innocent man wants FULL investigation and TIME to prove their case. An innocent man wouldn't bold-face LIE about the misogyny in his yearbook.

And I’ll tell ya this: the way he could instantly morph for Jekyll to Hyde and back 20 times depending on which party was asking the question is very strong evidence that this guy is not mentally balanced, he might be a monster. He is a political hack with zero respect for the Job.

His appointment is designed to ERODE SCOTUS' power under the Constitution and undermine what's left of our democracy.

Originally Posted by: Barfarn 



I... Don't know if I'd go nearly that far. I watched the ENTIRE hearing (holy shit). Ford was persuasive, and her behavior entirely consistent with the claims she was making, in a way that is profoundly hard to fake. Everything from facial expressions to body language to word choices.

Kavanaugh was emotional and powerful in his opening statement and frankly, blew me away.

Once he got away from the prepared statement, he was inconsistent, combative, evasive, and kept repeatedly going back to 3 or 4 talking points every time someone asked him a direct question he didn't feel like answering. For such a smart guy he should be able to figure out that everyone's asking him about his yearbook not because they're trying to fixate on dumb fart nicknames, but because the claim that a heavy drinker in high school NEVER drank to the point where he had ANY difficulties remembering what happened the previous night is not believable. Never blacked out? Sure. But never had ANY issues with memory? Bullshit. And every time someone brought up his drinking problem he went straight back to grandstanding about the good ol' american boy on the varsity football team, helping disabled children, etc etc etc... Wanted to punch him.

I don't disbelieve either of them insofar as what they think happened. The difference here is one of the two individuals had a drinking problem and from various sources that knew him at the time, he often drank to excess. And this individual is being evasive and combative to casual questioning. While the other is being interrogated by a prosecutor clearly trying to trap her into pointing a picture of a vast liberal conspiracy, being nothing but collected and cooperative.

Can you IMAGINE what people would be saying if Ford was the one that went off onto a forceful 40 minute rant for her opening statement, started accusing members of the Republican panel of willfully stifling her for their own political motivations, and then was evasive and non-specific whenever she was asked a question?
KRK
  • KRK
  • Veteran Member
6 years ago
As usual, the posters who bloviate the most are the most inaccurate, ill-informed, and seem to lack the basic observation and factual assessment skills to understand the situation, serve on a jury, and probably should be stripped of their right to make him any meaningful decision in their own lives, much less anybody else’s.

Lacking in any of these attacks, on what would appear to be a fine man, are a basic understanding fundamental issues which are explicitly stated in our constitution, and every penal code which addresses these issues.

Point 1 is a presumption of innocence. This fundamental principle is the case whether you are accused of shoplifting, murder, rape, irrespective of what you are applying for aspiring to, or the position you’re in.

Second, is the fact that there needs to be corroborating evidence presented in order to fully prosecute anybody for anything. To the simpletons reading this, that means one person‘s word against another doesn’t hold sway

Finally, the third principle is in all of our laws there are statutes of limitations.

To the first point, to the folks who get all their facts from MSNBC and CNN...this is, in fact, a proceeding in which the accused is presumed innocent. At least that is the case according to our Constitution.

Second, Every single piece of corroborating evidence is in the favor of the judge. Nothing in this woman story is consistent with the fact set or allegations presented. ALL the other data and witnesses who have been asked to corroborate of the story have either explicitly undermined her statements or they all contradict her recollection.

Third, and the vast majority of our penal code, is a statute of limitations. It is grossly unfair to accuse somebody and ask them to defend themselves for actions taken 35 years ago, when you didn’t tell anybody, file a police report, or do anything about it contemporaneously.

All the women in my life know to scratch, claw, dig, and do anything that would provide physical evidence under your fingernails. If the government doesn’t take care of it, I will. Second they all know to file a police report as soon as possible. By the way, you’ll note that none of these accusers of filed police reports as to do would open them up to prosecution.

Also in regard to the assessment of his performance, I actually have a job and didn’t have the time to watch it. However in the snippets I saw, I thought he showed remarkable poise. I would’ve told the senators to go fuck themselves during the inane ridiculous questioning.

Kavanaugh is a strict constitutionalist. He believes the Constitution should be interpreted as it was originally written and subsequently amended. To describe him as anything different illustrates an absolute lack of understanding of the constitution or his record.

But he is the embodiment of what all statists and the leftists HATE...A white male heterosexual who believes in the rule of law and the constitution.

Also, the real losers in this will be the women who were actually raped. The other losers will be women in general because entrepreneurs and other employers will not put themselves in a situation to be alone with women and open themselves up to unjust accusations down the road.

This will be my last correspondence on this topic. I go to this blog to escape from every day life, but I felt compelled to reply to the previously posts.
In Luce tua Videmus Lucem KRK
Cheesey
6 years ago
A question that bugged me was:”did you ever drink during the week? YES OR NO!”
How do you answer that? Of COURSE he did at some time. But the questioner didn’t want any details, Just “yes or no”. That says a lot as far as, do they REALLY want the truth? Or do they just want more to try to make the guy look guilty.
And how much did the accuser drink on the night in question? Did she do things she wanted to, then blame the guy so she wouldn’t feel like a tramp? It DOES happen, you know.
I’m just bringing up possibilities that could be true.
If it was something that happened in the last year, it would be a lot easier to judge either way. Why wasn’t it reported to the police back then? If it had been, it would be easy to decide. But it wasn’t.
And priests were brought up in this thread. I don’t think any of them that molested children was found out to be a one time thing. It was a lifestyle of molesting that finally caught up with them. Has Kavanaugh shown that kind of history?
And as far as Jesus, he never sinned even once. So why bring up his name, except to try to judge others?
Look on the mirror and judge yourself honestly. I am a sinner. The ONLY reason I can go to Heaven is because of what Jesus did on the cross.
Even though I try not to, I sin all the time. I get angry when someone cuts me off in traffic, I get mad when someone “disses” me, I curse sometimes. I earn Hell, but by the grace of God, won’t end up there.

In the end, what I think about Kavanaugh doesn’t matter.
Did he do it? I don’t truly know. Neither does anyone here.
I bet if the lives of all the judges was laid out and you could see what bad they have done, not one of them would be on the bench.
Would Bill Clinton have ever been elected president had people known about his constant womanizing?
I don’t know. But I bet there would be many that would look the other way.
Using your high position to lure women into sex.....shouldn’t that be a reason to not hold the highest position in the country?
I honestly believe some look the other way in Clinton’s case so that they can feel better about things they have done. “Heck, the president did it, so it can’t be THAT bad”.
Had Clinton owned up to what he did, and not look right into the camera and lied to our faces, I would have had some respect for him.
If morals count for so much, then judge evenly. Don’t just pick and choose.
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Barfarn
  • Barfarn
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
6 years ago

As usual, the posters who bloviate the most are the most inaccurate, ill-informed, and seem to lack the basic observation and factual assessment skills to understand the situation

Originally Posted by: KRK 



Thanks for providing a caricatured example for us. Would Jesus talk like this 😂?

Point 1 is a presumption of innocence.

Originally Posted by: KRK 


The presumption only applies to criminal trials, PLEASE PAT ATTENTION, this is effectively a job interview.

Second, is the fact that there needs to be corroborating evidence presented in order to fully prosecute anybody for anything. To the simpletons reading this, that means one person‘s word against another doesn’t hold sway

Originally Posted by: KRK 



Authors for Wigmore and CJS are Simpletons?
Fact is, if a women’s testimony in a sexual abuse case is not contradictory or improbable on its face it does not need to be corroborated by other evidence unless a statute expressly requires it to be [See 2 of a number of treatises: 75 C.J.S., Rape, § 787; 7 Wigmore on Evidence, 3d ed., §2061].


Finally, the third principle is in all of our laws there are statutes of limitations.

Originally Posted by: KRK 


Sorry bud, no statute of limitations in the Ford case; the FBI investigation could end up with charges being brought. And since the investigation is limited in both scope and time; the charges could be filed AFTER Bretty Boy is appointed. How fun would that be????


Second, Every single piece of corroborating evidence is in the favor of the judge. Nothing in this woman story is consistent with the fact set or allegations presented. ALL the other data and witnesses who have been asked to corroborate of the story have either explicitly undermined her statements or they all contradict her recollection.

Originally Posted by: KRK 



ahhhhh...WRONG again, unless you mean all the evidence reported by Koch Bro propaganda media! A witness now puts Keyser at the party.The Yearbook corroborated Ford and double impeached Bretty [First for showing a misogynistic side and second because he LIED about the meaning of the entries]. Mark Judge's girlfriend said he told her that he and another guy committed a sexual assault. Mark Judge's numerous written accounts of his drunken hooligan high school years and his best bud was Bretty. etc.etc.etc.


All the women in my life know to scratch, claw, dig, and do anything that would provide physical evidence under your fingernails. If the government doesn’t take care of it, I will. Second they all know to file a police report as soon as possible. By the way, you’ll note that none of these accusers of filed police reports as to do would open them up to prosecution.

Originally Posted by: KRK 



This is offensive and could only be close to true if you live in a Viking horde.

I would’ve told the senators to go fuck themselves during the inane ridiculous questioning.

Originally Posted by: KRK 



And yes, I’m sure you would. And that is why both you and Kavanaugh, with your parallel intemperance, would both be unfit to serve on SCOTUS.

Kavanaugh is a strict constitutionalist.

Originally Posted by: KRK 



A real and true person of the Law, a transcendent, brilliant, incorruptible legal mind, the type that should occupy every seat on SCOTUS, could never be labeled with one ignorantly charged meaningless word.
nerdmann
6 years ago
The whole thing is a referendum on whether mens' lives can be destroyed with no evidence.

First of all the Imperial Left DOESN'T CARE about rape. If they did, they wouldn't have run Hillary Clinton for office. They would also be looking askance at Keith Ellison and his accusations of violently assaulting women.

If they really DID care about rape, they wouldn't only Express those concerns when they believe it to be politically advantageous.

Second of all, if they actually HAD anything on Kavanaugh, they would have used it. THEY DON'T. So they had to go with the old standard, "unverifiable personal anecdote."

This is a TRANSPARENT move to block the new SCOTUS pick, JUST BECAUSE THE IMPERIAL LEFT DOESN'T LIKE HIM. They tried to do the same thing with Trump, with this fake Russia conspiracy theory. I say this as a Jill voter, and someone who HATED Kavanaugh as a pick.

Thirdly, if they criticized him on his 4th Amendment stance, they could have thrown him out on that. But The Imperial Left also HATES civil liberties.

Fourth, EVERBODY knows this is a false accusation. It's just that some people are hoping it will stick anyway. Like I said, this is a referendum on whether men can have their lives destroyed at any time, WITH NO EVIDENCE. Watch your backs, because we are seeing alot of people who want exactly that.



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