I don't use it now but I had several business law classes in college 100 years ago. They were taught by a professor who was an arbitrator for labor relation disputes. All of that was long before professional sports current style of CBAs. (Back then MLBPA kicked ass every time.)

All in all I agree speech/actions/dress are dictated by the CBA. It's not that NFL, Inc is against the causes you mentioned (one has to wonder how dedicated they are to domestic abuse) it's simply that they fear losing two or three shekels from their Mt Everett of gold if they let players dress however they feel like it. Some sponsor may only give them $950,000,000,000 million instead of $950,000,000,001 million for the chance to have their brand in front of the sheeple viewers.

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[First] You’re 100% correct, Amendment #1 concerns the G’s abridgment of free speech. But, the G is abridging free speech if they coerce or conspire with the NFL to abridge free speech of its players. The NFL would probably be a nominal defendant in such an action, unless as argued in previous post, the NFL is considered a governmental unit with regard to free speech.

[Second] Wrong! An employer forcing you to chicken cluck or Anthem stand is the EXACT same thing in the subject context. The only difference is YOUR PERCEPTION that one is appropriate, and one is not. If an employer can make you stand for the Anthem, they can make you cluck like a chicken or pledge allegiance to Kim. The nationalistic biases need to be removed to see the issue with clarity. Employers are not allowed to arbitrarily force an employee do things that are not job related, even if it’s thought to be a good thing; unless it was discussed at hire. Whether the behavior is a “social norm” is categorically irrelevant.

[Third] Again, nationalistic biases must be stuffed. It is a mutually exclusive logical impossibility for one to disrespect our Flag or Anthem while peacefully protesting inappropriate Governmental behavior [Even if the protestor is wrong about the issue]!

One possesses the right not to exercise; but by doing so, they lose the right to claim they’ve achieved max fitness. Likewise, one has the right to opine that Kaepernick’s protest is “disrespectful to the Flag/Anthem.” But by doing so, they place themselves at war with the US Constitution because they’re assigning a value to our Flag/Anthem inconsistent with American Values and Law. They’re converting the US Flag/Anthem into, for example, the N. Korean Flag/Anthem. This opinion is taking a position of hostility to the concepts of American freedom and liberty; they are advocating for despotism.

Intolerance of Kaepernick’s protests prove either ignorance for or hostility toward our Nation’s values and by association disgrace the Anthem and Flag. So, he kneels for the Anthem, it doesn’t change the football watching experience the slightest bit, HTF does this rankle anyone? It’s not like he’s running onto the field naked delaying the game.

The thing totally missed about Kaepernick is he is not acting affirmatively, he’s acting passively. Now if he’s passive during a snap, this is a problem because his job requires him to act a certain way on snap. But, he’s passively kneeling when it was not required of him to stand. If the NFL can make him stand at a point in time that is not required; they can make him flap his arms like a bird or cluck like a chicken.

Not 100% informed on the Tebow praying before a game, I remember the issue being about him praying between plays. And the rest of the stuff was about uniform violations. IMHO, each of these restrictions fall under the goose-gander principle, which considers if you allow 1 guy to do something what happens if all 126 players do it. 1 guy kneeling for the anthem is no different than 126 doing it. If one guy can wear a patch and change his shoe color, imagine if one wears a 3’ by 5’ patch or 40 patches or if 126 guys wear different colors of shoes and socks. The easiest way to enforce a rule and prevent the slippery slope is to prohibit behaviors 100% and perhaps only allow well defined and publicized exceptions.

[Lastly] Not sure why anyone would dump on Kaepernick’s play. He was never close to elite, that’s why he got a pay-as-you-go 2nd contract. But, it is now incontrovertible, the proof is out, he’s a starting NFL QB [Florio, BTW an attorney, said scouting reports of several teams obtained in discovery in the collusion case indicate that Kaepernick was viewed a starting QB]. And everyone here knows he could have started for several teams at various points last year, including GB, and been a back-up on at least 25.

But then, oh wait, this is where the baggage baggage baggage bullshyte enters the pic. Of course, never a god damn fact placed in context. And what the hell does this BS drivel mean? That every NFL player is an absolute choir boy, and the moment they get baggage that no NFL gives them a chance to work? WTF, and I mean WTF are they thinking? There’s hundreds of guys that have much more baggage than Kaepernick and are not considered starter/solid back-up material like Kaepernick. My god Titus Young, Aldon Smith were INSANE and SUCKED or sucked for multiple years and still got chances to work. 6’6 330 Jonathan Martin showed nothing felt bullied and left camp, really? His supposed bullier got suspended and BOTH got more opportunities. There are 100s of guys that were much worse than Kaepernick or Reid that got 2, 3, 10 chances for drugs, PEDs, beating wives, punching-out mates and coaches, sleeping with teammates wives, etc., etc., etc. Hell, if Hernandez were alive and Trump pardoned him, a serial killer would be in a god damn OTA this week.

Since it otherwise makes no sense, this baggage must be the same as Jackie Robinson’s 1947 “baggage!” Jackie’s “baggage” included:

Dixie Walker Brooklyn’s best position [CF] player [1946 #2 in MVP voting to Stan Musial] and very popular player circulated a petition to keep Robinson out in 1947-he had to be traded after ’47 season for a couple of youngsters.

Kirby Higbe, Brooklyn’s best pitcher by far in 1946, refused to play w/ Robinson on the field and was dealt 2 weeks into the season for cash.

White fans organized a boycott, successfully keeping over 20K White fans away on opening day; this was offset by 10K Blacks that come to their first game wearing their Sunday’s best clothes.
But, Branch Rickey said, “eff-off” to all of this “baggage.” There ain’t a single Branch Rickey in the NFL today; just a group of sociopathic cowards. If we replayed the Dodgers’ 1947 season today, would it be better or worse for Jackie?

Interestingly in his autobiography Robinson said, “I Cannot Stand and Sing the Anthem. I Cannot Salute the Flag…[because] I know that I am a black man in a white world." The parallels to Kaepernick are many.

Quasi-random Factoids:

The first Black baseball player was not Jackie Robinson, it was Bill White [Ironic isn’t it?], but he was biracial and passed himself off as White [he played 1 game in 1879]. The first admitted Black player was Moses Fleetwood Walker [“Fleet”]. He played in 1884 for the Toledo Blue Stockings; he was joined later that year by his brother Weldy, who only played in 6 games. Fleet was a catcher and pitchers wouldn’t take signs from a Black guy so Fleet never knew what pitch was coming. And catchers of the day did not wear much protective gear; so whiole catching Fleet routinely had the crap beat out of him by the pitched ball.

In a game in Louisville, Walker was physically chased off the field by fans. And Toledo received the following letter in advance of a game in Richmond, “Dear Sir: We, the undersigned, do hereby warn you not to put up Walker, the Negro catcher, the days you play in Richmond, as we could mention the names of 75 determined men who have sworn to mob Walker if he comes on the ground in a suit. We hope you will listen to our words of warning so there will be no trouble, and if you do not, there certainly will be. We only write this to prevent much bloodshed, as you alone can prevent.” Fleet didn’t play in Richmond! After the season the Owners made a “Gentleman’s Agreement” that there’d be no crying or Blacks in baseball.

Barfarn,

Sorry, I am not great at copying posts, so if I goof it up, apologies

You asserted...
[Second] Wrong! An employer forcing you to chicken cluck or Anthem stand is the EXACT same thing in the subject context. The only difference is YOUR PERCEPTION that one is appropriate, and one is not. If an employer can make you stand for the Anthem, they can make you cluck like a chicken or pledge allegiance to Kim.

I would respectfully submit that you are incorrect. When you are on the job, the employer can dictate your behavior. Your recourse is to find another job.

Your further asserted, "Intolerance of Kaepernick’s protests prove either ignorance for or hostility toward our Nation’s values and by association disgrace the Anthem and Flag". Again, I disagree. I just don't want to see anyone's political views when I am tuning in for entertainment.

Third, I don't know why you assume my (or anyone else's) objection to Kaepernick is racist. Before he was benched he was missing wide open receivers. More to the point, if he was Puerto Rican protesting our lousy response to a hurricane, I wouldn't want to see it. If he was Chinese or white protesting reverse discrimination in university admittance programs, I wouldn't want to see it. I DON'T GIVE A RIP WHAT ANY OF THEIR POLITICAL VIEW ARE.. I am tuning in to watch football and be entertained. During that period of time, I want to escape from politics and the world.

B, again, I admire your passion, but in deference to my sanity, and again because I go to this site to escape the mundane, this will be my last post on the subject.

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I like "Barfarn" outside the norm thinking, (they remind me of uffda in a way which is what I admired about him on this site) but holy shit balls! Can we get a summary?? 😃

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He did. He used "G" instead of"Government". Tada!

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Some people think that if you post super long rambling posts, that proves you are right, or are smarter then everyone.
I think one of the best posts in this thread was the last one by KRK. He was right to the point with valid reasoning, and was right in all he said.

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I can't say I endorse the protest during the anthem, the choice of medium itself.

But I cannot say how I feel better than this.

Watch here 


Big picture... not just reacting to them kneeling at the anthem itself.

BTW.. this is how I want my leaders to talk about the issue this country faces.. not the normal bullshit spewed by both parties in the government(G) today.

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Dude nailed it.

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I think this was why people were saying it was disrespectful to the flag and our Country.

Colin Kaepernick: “I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.”

Late September 2017 our President changed the narrative. Very few were kneeling or raising fist during the anthem and it wasn't front page news anymore. Then it became Us vs the President, admitted by several players, Julius Thomas comes to mind. He felt he had to respond to the President.


I have had several debates/discussions with those who are adamant that those who are not standing during the anthem are disrespecting our Country. When I ask if they stand at home when it's aired on TV, do you stand? They say no, that's different. I ask when you're at an event and have to go to bathroom or get concessions during the anthem, do you stand? They say no, that's different.

The point being, the angst isn't coming solely from people not standing during the anthem. No. It is more of the who is not standing during the anthem. Players who earn six, seven or more figures annually. I say this confidently because at numerous events I see people not standing during the anthem and when you gesture to them they blow you off or give you a dirty look. I am willing to bet they are the same squeaky wheels saying NFL players should get the hell out of our Country if they won't stand during the anthem.

And also a huge part is just being self pedestal lifting hypocrites.

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Here’s where that video differs from what the protest is about.
The freedom riders, Rosa Parks, the people at the counter, and so on, were all innocent people fighting for the rights they DESERVE as Americans.
They didn’t run from cops when pulled over at a traffic stop, or pull a weapon on cops, or refuse to do what the police tell them to do. As I have stated over and over, the vast majority of people killed by police ended up that way because of something illegal they themselves did. NOT basic civil rights.
Check the cases and that is what you will see in almost all of them.
Yes,there are rare cases where a cop is at fault and someone dies. And those should be prosecuted.
Teach your children to respect the law and those police that have a hard enough job without expecting cops to just let people do whatever they want because if the color of their skin.
Use common sense and this whole “problem” would disappear.
Why shouldn’t those pulled over be expected to do what I was taught to do when pulled over? Do what the cop tells you to do, and you won’t end up in worse trouble or dead.
Is that really asking too much of people???

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