Barfarn
  • Barfarn
  • Senior Member Topic Starter
6 years ago
On the trade with Saints Gutekunst said [multiple times in different ways in his PC Thurs night], “We were going to get the same value player, when that trade came up.”

This is a LIE; a false statement of fact that the author knows is false.

If he believed it, it means he believes that players from #14 to #27 were of equal value. However, the only logic for spending a 3rd to move up From #27 to #18 is to draft a better player. Ergo, if Gutekunst believed what he said, he would not have wasted a 3rd round pick to move to #18.

Obviously, we all know it’s not true and it may appear superficially as a harmless lie isolated unto itself. Here’s the thing: Ted was incapable of standing in front of a mic and saying something he knew was untrue; Ted was a man of impeccable character and respected for it.

Everyone lies during their life, but what separates the honorable from the shameless liar is the level of commitment individuals have to telling the truth. Put another way: liars lie with regularity, sometimes serially; the honorable, no so much. The single most important tool a GM possesses is honor. A GM doesn’t have to be the best scout or the best money manager or possess the best personality. But, without honor a GM won’t be trusted by agents, his own scouts and colleagues, players, other GMs, etc. and this will doom his administration to failure.

And another thing: the lie was 100% unnecessary. Why not tell the truth? He could have said something like, “by moving down 13, we knew there’s a good chance we’d end up with a lesser player. However, we got two extra picks, a valuable one at #147 this year and a critical 2019 1st rounder.” Who would not accept the logic in this?

This unnecessary lie fails to support another important purpose of a draft PC: to flatter the picks. A good GM never insults his picks. The lie renders Alexander as just a guy equal to those taken from #14 to 27. Plus, it makes the Saints look like morons. I bet some loud-mouthed agenda driven GM-hating Saint fan on a forum somewhere is using this lie as evidence to castigate his Ted Thompson for giving away a 1st and 4th for a player they could have got at #27.

This lie added to his chatty way before the draft, his numerous statements about being his own man and other quirky things said evidence a GM struggling with his esteem. I don’t want a GM with personality or oe that gives the fans what they want or a feeling of transparency. I want an honorable, self-assured GM that understands secrecy and shunning public display are an essential part of the job description.
nerdmann
6 years ago
I have a LOT more confidence in the dude after this draft than I did before. As far as drafting players, I think he did GREAT, not just because I called 4 of them myself, but because I think these guys can make an impact.

Only thing is, he seems to be one of these “measurables” guys. Figures he can get athletes, let the coaches turn them into football players. I don’t necessrily agree wih that approach, but I’m also not necessarily averse to it. We shall see how it works out.

I mean, i don’t think he was bullshitting in this instance so much as he was just engaging in Ted Speak, trying to dissemble or not say anyhing substantive so as to strategically tip his hand. He was essentially saying “WE LIKE ALL THESE GUYS.” 🤣
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
beast
6 years ago
Seriously, what is this crap? Super-mega over analysising and overcompensating for what?

Are you okay Barfarn? It just seems strange that you bring up esteem issues and then seem to be having a my penis is larger argument with someone that's not even on this site ... especially with something as simple and basic as those comments.

Are you just blowing off steam? Venting? Or just looking for anything to bitch about?


I don't know what's wrong... but it should be okay buddy... keep venting, get it all out and feel better. 😄


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Cheesey
6 years ago
That’s just the way he rolls. Barf likes to find anything he sees as a point to tear someone down, then makes up a whole story to “prove” he’s right.
I don’t know why he thinks that way.
I don’t know why anyone would want to think that way. So negative.

Football is a business, and you don’t want the guys that are competing for players you might want, to know everything you are thinking.
Barf, do you think all the othe GMs don’t do that?
In a poker game, have you ever bluffed the other players to think you have a better hand then you actually do?
If so, you are a horrible liar!
Get the point?
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Smokey
6 years ago
A General Manager's job is at times much like a Poker player. He can't tip his hand to others in the game if he expects to win. Bluffing, exaggerating, and often folding on a deal are just a part of the GM's job. The other GMs know this and some are better at it than others. Most GMs won't make a deal in which they feel they are loosing.

GB's new GM has, so far, proven himself capable of sitting at the Adults Table. I was upset when he traded down GB's 14th pick, but he then made another deal that regained GB their 1st round pick (- 4 draft positions).

So far I'm not unhappy with BG as GB's GM. However the real test is how good will the drafted rookies play. We all have great expectations for players until life steps in and challenges the plan. For now I will have a wait and see policy as the new 2018 Packers takes shape.

GoPackGo

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gbguy20
6 years ago
Clouds must always be dark in your world
BAD EMAIL because the address couldn ot be found, or is unable to receive mail.
nerdmann
6 years ago

A General Manager's job is at times much like a Poker player. He can't tip his hand to others in the game if he expects to win. Bluffing, exaggerating, and often folding on a deal are just a part of the GM's job. The other GMs know this and some are better at it than others. Most GMs won't make a deal in which they feel they are loosing.

GB's new GM has, so far, proven himself capable of sitting at the Adults Table. I was upset when he traded down GB's 14th pick, but he then made another deal that regained GB their 1st round pick (- 4 draft positions).

So far I'm not unhappy with BG as GB's GM. However the real test is how good will the drafted rookies play. We all have great expectations for players until life steps in and challenges the plan. For now I will have a wait and see policy as the new 2018 Packers takes shape.

GoPackGo

Originally Posted by: Smokey 



I took the Jimmy Graham signing as a bullshit fluff move, more to excite fans than to improve the team. So I was worried. But I really like this draft.

I’m still a Ted Thompson loyalist, but so far Goot is earning the respect. IMO.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
blueleopard
6 years ago
Dude. Shut the fuck up, man. You're literally worse than uffda now when it comes to grasping straws to provide criticism of the brass. At least his stuff is a semi-believable opinion. You just sound like a Christ conspirator.

From the way the cards fell, this draft showed that Gutekunst has a way better hand on things than John Dorsey.

Gutez wheeled and dealed and ended up making next year's draft something to look forward to already. Dorsey, Wolf, and Company found a way to still be the Browns by taking a QB in a QB-heavy class when they could've taken the best RB or the best pass rusher and still end up with a top-tier QB in the draft.
Danreb Victorio A Believer of Greg Jennings
nerdmann
6 years ago

Dude. Shut the fuck up, man. You're literally worse than uffda now when it comes to grasping straws to provide criticism of the brass. At least his stuff is a semi-believable opinion. You just sound like a Christ conspirator.

From the way the cards fell, this draft showed that Gutekunst has a way better hand on things than John Dorsey.

Gutez wheeled and dealed and ended up making next year's draft something to look forward to already. Dorsey, Wolf, and Company found a way to still be the Browns by taking a QB in a QB-heavy class when they could've taken the best RB or the best pass rusher and still end up with a top-tier QB in the draft.

Originally Posted by: blueleopard 



LOL I would have taken Saquon at the top for sure.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
buckeyepackfan
6 years ago
Barfarn.
Somebody needs a hug.

Nerd.
Gute said in his presser after the draft he at times leaned heavily on Ted.

He has been taught well, Ted knew it was time to go back to scouting.

Ted left The Packers in good hands and with a plethora of picks to work with.

To the rest
John Dorsey has built winners wherever he has been.
Only time will tell whether he made the right move.
Just as many "can't miss" rb's have failed as Qb's.
You can laugh now, but franchise qb's are hard to find, if Dorsey sticks to his plan , Baker won't see the field until maybe next year, could be 2020 before he starts.
By then plenty if really good rb's will come and go.
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
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beast (24-Dec) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : both games Watson missed, Packers won
Martha Careful (24-Dec) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
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