uffda udfa
7 years ago

Not for those who know football.

I've really gotten sick of people who clearly don't know football. So many times AJ comes from backside makes a tackle 5-10 yards down field, and get criticized for it. he got dragged or was slow getting there. When if they would look at the play, they might realize that AJ never should have been making the tackle tackle in the first place. He had to because 2 or 3 others before him had already screwed up.

Bishop was OK at front side, but he wasn't assignment sure. Everybody remembers when he shot a gap to make a tackle for loss, but they don't remember all the times he tried and miss basically hanging the rest of the team out in the process.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



AJ Hawk was what he was because he couldn't run. I never understood how he posted the 40 he did. I'd like an investigation into that. I ain't kidding. Hawk ran like old Brewers catcher, Ted Simmons. I've been advocating putting impact players on the field. Guys with the most talent. AJ Hawk was one of those? If he was, well, no wonder... This guy was roided up at The Ohio State University and never ever came close to what he was supposed to be.

If I don't know football, then you surely can explain Hawk's lack of impact plays over his career? He made very very very few and he was a 5th overall. It was shocking how little impact he actually made. Late rounder, slower 40 time than Hawk by a mile, was infinitely more impactful. I want guys who can get on the field and change games. I'll live with some mistakes for the tradeoff of impact vs. a flatline guy. AJ Hawk is the poster child for our organization. He typifies exactly what I hate about our front office and our philosophy...these safe picks who don't really stand out...just flat line...




UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


PackFanWithTwins
7 years ago

AJ Hawk was what he was because he couldn't run. I never understood how he posted the 40 he did. I'd like an investigation into that. I ain't kidding. Hawk ran like old Brewers catcher, Ted Simmons. I've been advocating putting impact players on the field. Guys with the most talent. AJ Hawk was one of those? If he was, well, no wonder... This guy was roided up at The Ohio State University and never ever came close to what he was supposed to be.

If I don't know football, then you surely can explain Hawk's lack of impact plays over his career? He made very very very few and he was a 5th overall. It was shocking how little impact he actually made. Late rounder, slower 40 time than Hawk by a mile, was infinitely more impactful. I want guys who can get on the field and change games. I'll live with some mistakes for the tradeoff of impact vs. a flatline guy. AJ Hawk is the poster child for our organization. He typifies exactly what I hate about our front office and our philosophy...these safe picks who don't really stand out...just flat line...

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



I don't think the switch to 3-4 was the best thing for him. But I think he gets far less credit then he deserves. Word is also that he spent to much time and bulked up a little to much in the weight room. I also don't think he was a slow as people try to make it seam. His build and running style doesn't look fast though. Jordy has sort of been that way also, when looking at him run he doesn't look fast, but then he is running by people. Looks can often be deceiving.

you keep saying Lack of Impact. What is impact? does it have to be on a highlight or stat line to be in impact? Taking on a C so Bishop can blitz unblocked and get a sack. Bishop gets credit for making an impact play, AJ who made it possible gets none.

There have been interviews with Kevin Greene, Woodson and other defensive players. They all say, if you listen to Dom and do what he says, you will have success. When things break down it is often because somebody didn't do what they were told, they made a mistake.

AJ was making great impact, just not highlights.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
beast
7 years ago

I don't think the switch to 3-4 was the best thing for him. But I think he gets far less credit then he deserves. Word is also that he spent to much time and bulked up a little to much in the weight room. I also don't think he was a slow as people try to make it seam. His build and running style doesn't look fast though. Jordy has sort of been that way also, when looking at him run he doesn't look fast, but then he is running by people. Looks can often be deceiving.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



What I think hurt Hawk most was the ultra-read and react system under DC Bob Sanders which asked OLB to help keep the ILB clean to make the tackle. But they took Hawk from a very aggressive college system and switch him over to the most reactive scheme I've seen in the NFL, which asked him to be a role player to help the ILB make the play. But the reactive role, and asking him to be a gap filler to keep someone else clean, was NOT in the best interested of Hawk out of college.

Same can be said about BJ and with the 3-4 scheme asking him to play two gap NT. Though the difference being, Raji's size limited him to interior DT, which in the 3-4 scheme had to play some two gap... but Raji sucked at it. Raji would of been best in an aggressive penetrate role.


But yes the Packers have grabbed some good college playmakers and tried to use them as role players, and it hasn't worked out as well, I'm not sure who you blame here.

UserPostedImage
uffda udfa
7 years ago

I don't think the switch to 3-4 was the best thing for him. But I think he gets far less credit then he deserves. Word is also that he spent to much time and bulked up a little to much in the weight room. I also don't think he was a slow as people try to make it seam. His build and running style doesn't look fast though. Jordy has sort of been that way also, when looking at him run he doesn't look fast, but then he is running by people. Looks can often be deceiving.

you keep saying Lack of Impact. What is impact? does it have to be on a highlight or stat line to be in impact? Taking on a C so Bishop can blitz unblocked and get a sack. Bishop gets credit for making an impact play, AJ who made it possible gets none.

There have been interviews with Kevin Greene, Woodson and other defensive players. They all say, if you listen to Dom and do what he says, you will have success. When things break down it is often because somebody didn't do what they were told, they made a mistake.

AJ was making great impact, just not highlights.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



I don't want to come across as a jerk, but it boggles my mind how often these kinds of things happen. Nobody has an ounce of trust in anything I say. Hawk was known for his lack of impact plays. That doesn't square with someone telling me I don't understand football. It squares with the opposite.

From profootballtalk.com

“His year was just quiet,” Moss said. “When he got in, there wasn’t a lot of tackle production and there weren’t interceptions so you look at his stat line and you say, ‘Well, what the hell did he do last year?’ A.J. is not a problem. A.J. is not an issue. A.J. didn’t play poorly last year. He just didn’t make those impact plays. I’m fine with what A.J. is doing. But on the flipside of that, you want your guys being impactful and making plays. He didn’t do it last year and I’m sure he’s not satisfied. He’s going to respond accordingly.”

The lack of impact plays was particularly noticeable in pass coverage, where Hawk declined from 10 passes defensed and three interceptions in 2010 to three passes defensed and zero interceptions in 2011. Hawk acknowledges that.

********************************************************************************

From PackerReport.com regarding his career post-mortem:

That Hawk went so high and failed to make the associated impact falls more on Thompson than it does on Hawk. One year after the surprise of drafting Aaron Rodgers in the first round – with Brett Favre still on the roster – Thompson nabbed what many billed as the safe pick in Hawk, which is just what the Packers got.

Hawk will never be remembered for making game-changing plays or tackles behind the line of scrimmage.

Because great plays like the one against the Saints were few and far between for Hawk, he probably falls outside the top 10 or even 15 best picks in the Thompson era. (He was the highest pick Ted had and falls outside the top 15 best picks of Ted, and we've had so few blue chippers? Indicting.)

Even AJ Hawk knows he failed to live up to expectations:

“There’s obviously a million plays you’d love to have back and a couple more Super Bowl rings that I feel like we could have had while I was there,” said Hawk. “So you never fully live up to any expectations anyone places on you or that you have on yourself, I feel like. But overall, spending nine years in Green Bay, it’s been an absolute blessing. I’m super fortunate.”

Here's one last one from one of his big fans on reddit. I just had to because this guy is a Hawk truther and typed this: His lack of “impact” plays (INT, FF or Sack) and his troubles in coverage has led to him having a rather average looking career.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


PackFanWithTwins
7 years ago

Nobody has an ounce of trust in anything I say. Hawk was known for his lack of impact plays.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



There is a very valid reason for that and I think you know what it is.

Nobody will deny that AJ didn't have a career full of highlights and sure it would have been nice if he had. But In my humble, always right opinion. that is result in where he was playing and what he was asked to do.

But as it pertains to this topic, BISHOP. You were wrong, Bishop was not sitting the bench because of Hawk he was sitting because he wasn't better than Barnett.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
Cheesey
7 years ago
I think it's the coaching staff. They have some decent players, but don't seem to be able to build the defense around what they do best.
Maybe if they did, we could stop someone on 3rd and 10.
Capers should be shown the door. Get a new guy in and give it a try. What do we have to lose? Our defense is dead in the water, and won't change while Capers is still here.
Do we want the same crap defense next year????
UserPostedImage
uffda udfa
7 years ago

There is a very valid reason for that and I think you know what it is.

Nobody will deny that AJ didn't have a career full of highlights and sure it would have been nice if he had. But In my humble, always right opinion. that is result in where he was playing and what he was asked to do.

But as it pertains to this topic, BISHOP. You were wrong, Bishop was not sitting the bench because of Hawk he was sitting because he wasn't better than Barnett.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



I don't. I understand allegations are hurled at me all the time but they stop when I ask for proof. What I was referring to was the information I post. My memory is very good and when I type something it isn't made up. Of course, I will err once in awhile, but it's pretty rare. Sometimes, I trust my memory too much.

Just one last thing on this Hawk didn't get replaced by Bishop. Thanks. This is no different than me bringing up Jeff Janis and wondering why Davante Adams was out there in Year 2 stinking it up. I couldn't care less if Janis was playing the X, Y or Z positions at WR or Davante. I want the best guys playing. It ain't position specific. I didn't say Bishop was on bench because of Hawk...I was saying we had to live through a pedestrian player while an actual impact one was on the bench.
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Porforis
7 years ago
Again, let's try focusing more on the subject at hand than individual posters. If someone seriously bothers you that much that you can't resist making personal comments, ignore them or block them. The conversation itself is great - let's keep talking about it!
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