If I understand the rule correctly (and I am NOT sure that I do), the reviews got both the Beasley and Elliot calls correct. As the ball gets marked at the furthest distances while the player is either downed, touched or held up.
Originally Posted by: beast
My only question on the Zeke play was the camera they used to make the final call.
Maybe I'm wrong, but from what I got from the guys in the booth was that camera angle is not available in most stadiums.
Would like to hear others thoughts on that.
Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan
I think the NFL refs clearly disagree with you.
Forward Process can't be reviewed, to say if the play was over or not.
But the ball spot is reviewable even during forward process plays.
This is the forward process part that is nor reviewable... they blew the play dead, so what happened after the whistle does not count. But the Vikings could of challenged the ball spot.
Originally Posted by: beast
To Buckeye's point: I was yelling at MM for throwing the flag on the Beasley play, because it is IMPOSSIBLE to find "indisputable visual evidence" that established Beasley being short of LTG. I hope someone told MM, "I looks short, but camera angle cannot be verified; we dont have indisputable evidence. This ref, however, has a history of judging these video books by their cover, he doesnt understand how camera angles can distort the actual location of the ball relative to LTG."
Both of those calls were wrong as neither camera angle afforded anyone the ability to conclude indisputable evidence existed. This is the reason they installed Pylon cams a few years ago; so they could at least review GL plays.
Beast, the "touching" thing is about was the guy touched while on the ground or did the touch cause a player to hit the ground. If not "touched" the player is not downed yet.
The Grant fumble in video is a perfect example of which I speak. Grant looks to have clearly fumbled, he was on his feet when the ball came out. But because the ref ruled him down by forward progress the play cannot be reviewed. The reason is that we dont know if the fumble occurred before or after he was ruled downed. If the replay identified the exact moment he was ruled down by forward progress [impossible], then it could be determined if he lost control before he was downed [a fumble] or lost control after he was downed [no fumble] and the play would be reviewable.
Likewise, if Elliot was stopped by FP, just like with the Grant fumble above, we dont exactly know when the play was deemed dead.
If play was dead before Elliot reached-no first.
If play was dead after Elliot reached but before he pulled ball back-Its a first.
If play was dead after Elliot drew ball back to his chest- no first.
Like I said, Elliot was on bodies he never touched the ground until he fell off backside of pile, which was short of First down. HAd Elliot kept his feet, when he fell off backside of pile he could have kept running unless the play was dead by FP.
Now tell me by the replay exactly where is the play blown dead? You don't know and cant know with the present technology. And the refs don't know either. I bet they reviewed it like a GL play, not thinking this is at the 20.