OlHoss1884
8 years ago

That might be so, that some voted against Obama for that reason. But the 1st 4 years of his presidency did nothing. The big "change" he promised ended up with people only having "change" left in their pockets. So the fact that he got a second term I believe backs up my point even more.

Obama care has been a disaster. And he did it even though he didn't have the authority to do so. That's more like a dictator then a American President.
And Hillary? I agree with your points. We KNOW her record, so how can anyone expect anything good out of her? Again, I think she's hoping the female vote will get her through.
To me it's just more of this country circling around the drain......sooner or later, it will fall.
And for all those that fought and died for our freedom, that's REALLY a shame.

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 

'

His first four years were an attempt, despite the obstruction, to recover from the worst presidency since Hoover. And Obamacare being a disaster is something you hear on conservative media completely unsupported by fact.

Here's where the similarity with Hillary shows up, though. What happened over the last eight years to make things more equal for women? What about bringing jobs back from overseas? What about making more opportunity (i.e. college more affordable)? A lot more might have been done without an obstructionist Republican effort, but I saw very little effort other than business as usual from both sides.

Hillary's vision is to see Hillary with the crown. She talks the same good game about goals as every other politician, and even the ones with vision eventually fall into business as usual.

In any other year, Trump and Sanders get laughed off the ballot. This year, people on both sides are fed up, and most of their popularity is protest vote. Either one would be a disaster for the country. At least with Hillary, you know what you are going to get. Nothing.


"The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits" --Albert Einstein
PackFanWithTwins
8 years ago

Huh? Sorry, man, that's tinfoil hat stuff.

Originally Posted by: OlHoss1884 



No just reality. Just go back and look over the past few years when there has been gridlock. In ever single case, Obama could have prevented it, but didn't until he was able to achieve the desired amount of press.

One of the most popular statements from Obama. "I will veto any bill that doesn't contain .....


The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
DakotaT
8 years ago

No just reality. Just go back and look over the past few years when there has been gridlock. In ever single case, Obama could have prevented it, but didn't until he was able to achieve the desired amount of press.



Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



Because what the Republicans were proposing was absolutely ludicrous. Yep Republican 101 - huge tax cuts for corporations, millionaires, and billionaires; but balance the budget making cuts to social security, medicare, human services, and of course their #1 draconian ass raping veterans benefits. Yeah, I can see how it is so appealing for a middle class person such as yourself to vote for these creepy people. 🙄

Two kinds of Republicans: wealthy and mind-numbingly fucking stupid. I know which ones frequent this forum.

But hey, you guys get to keep your guns, beat down the LGBT community, and be nasty to immigrants. And then go sit in the front pew of the church proclaiming you're good people.
UserPostedImage
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
8 years ago
I'm not a good person. None of us are.

The difference is that some of us realize that we're all damned without God's grace.

And that disobedience of God in the name of equality or any other human criterion of "goodness" is still disobedience.

Any "Christian" who thinks Romans 1 speaks only to sexual rebellion against God needs to read it again. But any "Christian" who thinks he or she can "support" same sex marriage and the rest of the LGBT political agenda needs to read the Bible again. There may be places where God's Word is not the easiest to interpret; but matters of marriage and sexuality are not those places.

Striving to follow God's clear and inerrant Word is not "beating down". Neither is pointing out God's word. Nor is pointing out acts of disobedience to that Word that are clearly so.

Non-Christians may feel comfortable "weighing" their values against those God expresses. No Christian ever should, even if every professing Christian agrees with them. When a zillion Christians disagree with the Word of God, it is the zillion Christians who are wrong.

I used to disagree vehemently with those of my friends who refused to vote for a candidate because of a particular issue (e.g., abortion). I used to disagree vehemently with those of my friends who spoke of homosexuality as sin. I used to believe in the freedom of sexual choice.

And then I started reading the Bible seriously. And I started to realize that the essence of any sin lie in the fact that it was rebellion against God. I started to realize that there are no exceptions to the Great Commandment. I started to realize what it meant when I actively practiced or supported actions that I know are against His Law.

I do not claim that LGBTs are are all going to hell. That is not my call, and frankly I am glad it is not. To my mind, any one of us who claims to know what Jesus is going to do on the day of Judgment with that sword coming out of his mouth is at best deluding himself, and at worst blaspheming the one true Lord of Creation and committing gross self-idolatry.

What I do know, however, is that I really don't want to be seen by God as saying certain things are "okay" when I know in my heart and in my mind and in my soul that He says they are not.

And so I do know that I can no longer vote for political candidates who actively put themselves and their humanistic vision of "rights" in opposition to His stated will.

Romans 13 says I must submit to the political authorities, whether it is Bernie or Hillary or Donald or whoever. It does not say I should support any of them when they would put themselves in opposition to God and his Holy Word.







And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DakotaT
8 years ago

I'm not a good person. None of us are.

The difference is that some of us realize that we're all damned without God's grace.

And that disobedience of God in the name of equality or any other human criterion of "goodness" is still disobedience.

Any "Christian" who thinks Romans 1 speaks only to sexual rebellion against God needs to read it again. But any "Christian" who thinks he or she can "support" same sex marriage and the rest of the LGBT political agenda needs to read the Bible again. There may be places where God's Word is not the easiest to interpret; but matters of marriage and sexuality are not those places.

Striving to follow God's clear and inerrant Word is not "beating down". Neither is pointing out God's word. Nor is pointing out acts of disobedience to that Word that are clearly so.

Non-Christians may feel comfortable "weighing" their values against those God expresses. No Christian ever should, even if every professing Christian agrees with them. When a zillion Christians disagree with the Word of God, it is the zillion Christians who are wrong.

I used to disagree vehemently with those of my friends who refused to vote for a candidate because of a particular issue (e.g., abortion). I used to disagree vehemently with those of my friends who spoke of homosexuality as sin. I used to believe in the freedom of sexual choice.

And then I started reading the Bible seriously. And I started to realize that the essence of any sin lie in the fact that it was rebellion against God. I started to realize that there are no exceptions to the Great Commandment. I started to realize what it meant when I actively practiced or supported actions that I know are against His Law.

I do not claim that LGBTs are are all going to hell. That is not my call, and frankly I am glad it is not. To my mind, any one of us who claims to know what Jesus is going to do on the day of Judgment with that sword coming out of his mouth is at best deluding himself, and at worst blaspheming the one true Lord of Creation and committing gross self-idolatry.

What I do know, however, is that I really don't want to be seen by God as saying certain things are "okay" when I know in my heart and in my mind and in my soul that He says they are not.

And so I do know that I can no longer vote for political candidates who actively put themselves and their humanistic vision of "rights" in opposition to His stated will.

Romans 13 says I must submit to the political authorities, whether it is Bernie or Hillary or Donald or whoever. It does not say I should support any of them when they would put themselves in opposition to God and his Holy Word.


Originally Posted by: Wade 



For a guy who's done all this study of the old desert stories, you sure don't understand much when it comes to how you are suppose to treat other human beings.

Here you go Wade, you could have saved a lot of time:

All I Really Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten

by Robert Fulghum

Most of what I really need
To know about how to live
And what to do and how to be
I learned in kindergarten.
Wisdom was not at the top
Of the graduate school mountain,
But there in the sandpile at Sunday school.

These are the things I learned:

Share everything.
Play fair.
Don't hit people.
Put things back where you found them.
Clean up your own mess.
Don't take things that aren't yours.
Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.
Wash your hands before you eat.
Flush.
Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.
Live a balanced life -
Learn some and think some
And draw and paint and sing and dance
And play and work everyday some.
Take a nap every afternoon.
When you go out into the world,
Watch out for traffic,
Hold hands and stick together.
Be aware of wonder.

It doesn't really address the whole LGBT bashing that is so common with you smart people, but I think the jist is you're suppose treat everybody really well.
UserPostedImage
PackFanWithTwins
8 years ago

Because what the Republicans were proposing was absolutely ludicrous. Yep Republican 101 - huge tax cuts for corporations, millionaires, and billionaires; but balance the budget making cuts to social security, medicare, human services, and of course their #1 draconian ass raping veterans benefits. Yeah, I can see how it is so appealing for a middle class person such as yourself to vote for these creepy people. 🙄

Two kinds of Republicans: wealthy and mind-numbingly fucking stupid. I know which ones frequent this forum.

But hey, you guys get to keep your guns, beat down the LGBT community, and be nasty to immigrants. And then go sit in the front pew of the church proclaiming you're good people.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



All problems could be resolved by getting rid of democrats.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
8 years ago

For a guy who's done all this study of the old desert stories, you sure don't understand much when it comes to how you are suppose to treat other human beings.

Here you go Wade, you could have saved a lot of time:

All I Really Need To Know I Learned In Kindergarten

by Robert Fulghum

Most of what I really need
To know about how to live
And what to do and how to be
I learned in kindergarten.
Wisdom was not at the top
Of the graduate school mountain,
But there in the sandpile at Sunday school.

These are the things I learned:

Share everything.
Play fair.
Don't hit people.
Put things back where you found them.
Clean up your own mess.
Don't take things that aren't yours.
Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.
Wash your hands before you eat.
Flush.
Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.
Live a balanced life -
Learn some and think some
And draw and paint and sing and dance
And play and work everyday some.
Take a nap every afternoon.
When you go out into the world,
Watch out for traffic,
Hold hands and stick together.
Be aware of wonder.

It doesn't really address the whole LGBT bashing that is so common with you smart people, but I think the jist is you're suppose treat everybody really well.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Fulghum's is all good advice. (My mother was a kindergarten teacher, by the way.)

Unfortunately, it misses my main point. Or, more likely, I was unclear. Again.

Let me try one more time.

Were I a parent, or a kindergarten teacher, and I knew I had a kid who was attracted to fire, I'd probably try to convince him or her that fire was a dangerous thing.

Well, by my reading of the Book, the bad consequences of playing with the wrath of God are rather larger than the bad consequences of grabbing a branch out of the campfire.

If all that mattered is the kindergarten of this life, I'd have no problem with any sort of sexual behavior whatsoever.

Problem is, this life is *only* kindergarten compared to eternity.

And when it comes to eternity, the possibilities for the wrath of my God terrify me.

Utterly terrify me.

Because his Word demands far more obedience of us than Robert Fulghum does or my mother the kindergarten teacher ever did. And part of what it requires in that "love thy neighbor as thyself" is pointing out that He really doesn't like it when His children ignore His posted rules about keeping our hands (or other parts of our body) out of certain fires.

To my mind, the worst thing that could happen to a LGBT practitoner/believer is not me pointing out their sin. The worst thing that could happen to them (or to me did I knowingly fail to point out that sin) is for them to stand before Jesus and have him say to us, plainly, "I never knew you. Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness".

I don't want that to happen to me. I don't want that to happen to *anyone*.

You want to label pointing out what Romans 1 says, "bashing"? Fine. Me, I call it trying to obey God and avoid the wrath promised by Jesus in Matthew 7:23.

Nothing out-trumps trying to obey God with all one's heart, mind, soul, and strength.

Nothing.







And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Cheesey
8 years ago
And in reality, children in kindergarten will do what they want if rules are not put in place and enforced.
Mankind is born in sin, and will do whatever it takes to make their sin "OK" in the eyes of others.
Obama said something that bothered me a lot. That this country is no longer a Christian country. This country's foundation was based on Christianity. If you destroy the foundation, the whole "building" will collapse.
That is just what we are seeing.
The republican's first president was Lincoln. You know, the guy that ended slavery.
Yet we keep hearing about "the evil rich republicans".
There are just as many, if not more "evil rich democrats". They just pretend they are poor and will help the poor. Which of course is a load of BULL DROPINGS.
Let's just rape the rich even more! You know, the guys that own companies that employ everyone else. Thus forcing more business owners to move their companies out of the country, thus causing more unemployed people here in America.

I don't love Trump, but I don't see why so many people are upset that he wants to ship out illegal aliens. They are breaking the law! If they are here legally, then they followed the LAW, which was made to protect the citizens here. What is wrong with enforcing the laws that were passed to protect us?
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
8 years ago

I don't love Trump, but I don't see why so many people are upset that he wants to ship out illegal aliens. They are breaking the law! If they are here legally, then they followed the LAW, which was made to protect the citizens here. What is wrong with enforcing the laws that were passed to protect us?

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



When a man finds out that his wife has cheated on him, typically the man takes his frustration out on the guy who slept with his wife. Logic says the person at fault is the wife as she knew she was married and the guy might not have even known. I view illegal aliens in the similar tone because if we wouldn't hire them, they wouldn't be "taking" jobs away from citizens.

I do not know that I want any one shipped out, but I do know I want the wall high to prevent others from coming in illegally. I'd be fine with allowing the OPPORTUNITY for the illegals to earn citizenship that are already here. My reasoning for this is because no one wakes up saying they want to rob a bank because they have money. No one wakes up saying they want to steal a loaf of bread because they have four loaves. No. Thieves are born out of necessity for survival.
UserPostedImage
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
8 years ago

And in reality, children in kindergarten will do what they want if rules are not put in place and enforced.
Mankind is born in sin, and will do whatever it takes to make their sin "OK" in the eyes of others.
Obama said something that bothered me a lot. That this country is no longer a Christian country. This country's foundation was based on Christianity. If you destroy the foundation, the whole "building" will collapse.
That is just what we are seeing.
The republican's first president was Lincoln. You know, the guy that ended slavery.
Yet we keep hearing about "the evil rich republicans".
There are just as many, if not more "evil rich democrats". They just pretend they are poor and will help the poor. Which of course is a load of BULL DROPINGS.
Let's just rape the rich even more! You know, the guys that own companies that employ everyone else. Thus forcing more business owners to move their companies out of the country, thus causing more unemployed people here in America.

I don't love Trump, but I don't see why so many people are upset that he wants to ship out illegal aliens. They are breaking the law! If they are here legally, then they followed the LAW, which was made to protect the citizens here. What is wrong with enforcing the laws that were passed to protect us?

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 



I agree that the job of the president is to enforce laws.

I think restrictions on the free movement of labor across national boundaries are invariably a bad economic idea. I believe they should be removed, and I oppose any expansion of them. But if they are the law, it remains the executive branch's job to enforce them.

Except for that last paragraph, I agree with Alan.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
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