Zero2Cool
8 years ago

Good on you, then.

Still, agents preparing their prospects doesn't make it any more acceptable. It's the same as Ireland asking Dez if his mom's a hooker. It's might be just to stress test him, but it's an utterly ridiculous question in a job interview, because it has no bearing on their competence as NFL players in the slightest bit.

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 



I wasn't trying to imply that it was acceptable. I would imagine there being a less ethically challenging approach to gauging a young man's response to pressure packed situations. You know, like watching him play 2 minute drills for example!!
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Rockmolder
8 years ago

Well, what if the job interview is with Chick-Fil-A? A Christian employer is not allowed to ignore Bible's instruction. (And, no, it isn't just the Leviticus bits or even just Paul. See Matthew 5:17-19. Jesus himself makes no exceptions to the Old Testament. In fact he categorically *rejects* the notion of doing so.)

Not saying this is what Marquand Manuel was or was not thinking. It wouldn't be surprising to me in the macho world of football that this was the old "stress interview technique" being abused. To my mind, that kind of questioning is inappropriate in virtually any situation (as, by the way, a careful reading of the relevant bits of Paul on homosexuality, especially in the book of Romans, would reveal Paul the oft-scorned "homophobe" arguing most emphatically.

But, speaking as one of those Bible thumping fundies, a question about one's beliefs about homosexuality should not *necessarily* be considered ludicrous, whatever the secular law might say about it.

Because to our way of thinking -- or rather, to our God's way of thinking-- there is a difference about asking about one's belief about appropriate (i.e., "sinful or not"; which certain questions about sexual orientation/belief/practice may go to) sexual practices and asking about sexual endowments (which in fact is itself commits the sins of sexual immorality and idolatry).

Originally Posted by: Wade 



Firstly, this is an immensely hard question to answer. I'm not as informed as you are.

Two things, though. Should that Chick-Fil-A employer also ask about sexual partners and take Deuteronomy 22:13-21 into account? I'm not sure where you draw the line. Imo, it's none of their business. Christianity shouldn't be a burden for the ones that don't want to accept it, but a blessing for the ones that do.

Secondly, what if you turn the tables? Should an employer like Elon Musk be able to deny any Christian employees?
Cheesey
  • Cheesey
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
8 years ago
I love the fact that some people here actually took the time to actually respond with thought out answers. That was what I was hoping for.
I thank those of you that did that!

I have been asked some ridiculous questions at job interviews in my lifetime. The good thing about that is, if the guy that is thinking of hiring you lets on at the very beginning that he's a douche, you know that up front and have the choice of whether you even WANT to work for the guy.
For example, when I was in my teens I was applying at a car dealership for a job to wash the vehicles or move them on the lot, as needed. The guy interviewing me asked me "Would you do anything your boss asked you to do?" Of course I figured he meant within the job description, which I of course answered "Yes!" His reply, in a VERY nasty sarcastic tone was "You mean if he asked you to climb the flagpole out front you would DO it???"
I was stunned. I just got up and walked out. The guy was a total jerk, and I was glad I found that out up front.

Anyway, as a Bible believing Christian, I think knowing if a person you are looking to be the "face" of your company doesn't hold the same beliefs as you, you should be able to consider that. Then if someone doesn't want to do business with you because you hold to Biblical beliefs, they have the choice to shop elsewhere.
The reality is, people at job interviews are discriminated against every day. The company can come up with some bogus reason for NOT hiring you, and it's almost impossible to prove otherwise. They can also deny that they asked you unreasonable questions, and again, how do you prove your case?


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Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
8 years ago

Firstly, this is an immensely hard question to answer. I'm not as informed as you are.

Two things, though. Should that Chick-Fil-A employer also ask about sexual partners and take Deuteronomy 22:13-21 into account? I'm not sure where you draw the line. Imo, it's none of their business. Christianity shouldn't be a burden for the ones that don't want to accept it, but a blessing for the ones that do.

Secondly, what if you turn the tables? Should an employer like Elon Musk be able to deny any Christian employees?

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 



Yours is a good question. I'd say, "yes." My belief -- which almost certainly runs counter to the mainstream view and also to a variety of statutes in employment law -- is that an employer should be able to choose his employees pretty much any way he wishes.

I believe this for three reasons. First, freedom of association. A core value in this country is -- or at least used to be -- is that adult individuals should be free to associate with whoever they wish to associate with, in whatever way they wish to, as long as that association doesn't involve the threat or use of physical force against another. (A man should be free to dress up in camo but without eye protection and run around on his land with his friends similarly attired, shooting paintballs at each other; he is not free to run around on other people's land or on public land, doing so.)

And to my mind, freedom to associate includes economic association. If Joe Bigot wants only to hire Good Ol' Boy Rednecks to work for him, he should be able to. If he wants to only hire people from his church or mosque or synagogue, or people who sign an affirmation of the Augsburg or Westminster confession in front of the congregation or a notary public or the Grand High Poobah of the Masonic Order of whatever, he should be able to.

I personally find such a practice reprehensible. If he were a member of my church I would consider myself under obligation to remonstrate with him to change his employment practices, to subject him to criticism and reproof, for I would consider such a refusal incompatible with the teachings of God. And if he demonstrated a continued unwillingness to change his practices, I would follow the injunctions of Paul in one of his letters (2 Corinthians, perhaps, I can't remember which one it is) and stop associating with him. I wouldn't buy from him and I wouldn't invite him to a child's wedding or baptismal celebration.

Were he a Muslim refusing to hire Christians, I would affirm his freedom to do so. And I would refuse to associate with him and argue that everyone else do so as well.

Second, it's his wealth at stake. If an individual wants to invest his wealth (financial, physical, and/or human) to sell corn or computers but will only pay people who share a particular faith, that should be his prerogative. No one has a natural "right" to benefit from the use of someone else's wealth, and with the exception again of cases of force/threat of force, should not be compelled by law to do so.

Again, I'd consider it a reprehensible practice. I would ask him if the accusation were true, and then I would tell him why I think it reprehensible. If he then cited the Qu'ran for his practice, then I would tell him that he is following reprehensible teachings, and offer to show him the wisdom of following another book's teachings. If he refused to change, or if he was unwilling to listen to my offer, then I'd affirm his "right" to him and stop associating with him, economically or otherwise.

Third, I think there is something particularly insidious about restricting actions of people that are driven by their faith. If a Christian believes deeply enough in the third (or fourth, depending on how you were taught) commandment about keeping the Sabbath, that he insists his business be closed on that day, he should be allowed to. If he believes deeply enough that he refuses to associate with those who refuse to affirm that they will keep the Sabbath, he should be allowed to do that, too. After all, if I know you are going to sin, and I say "that's okay, it's not against the law, and so that remains your choice", am I not agreeing with you in your knowing rebellion against God? Am I not then myself rebelling against Him.

If I believe compliance with a law of temporal authority or with shared social belief is in conflict with my duty of obedience to my Lord, I believe the correct thing to do would be to fail to comply. If I believed (which I don't) that God doesn't want me to employ a Muslim, then I should refuse to employ a Muslim and damn the consequences that state and society bring down upon me.

And so, if a Muslim acquaintance of mine refuses to hire me, even though I am unemployed and it means my family is going to miss meals and mortgage payments and have to wear garage sale clothes, I might plead with him, remonstrate with him, argue about the virtues of Christ and the evils of his Mohammedism, I might denounce his Islamocentrism to others, but I would also oppose any effort anyone made to force that acquaintance to employ me. And I would oppose it even if their efforts had the sanction and support of the state and the Constitution.

Indeed, especially if their efforts had the state behind them.
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DoddPower
8 years ago
Yes.

Oh wait, the question wasn't being asked to me? My bad. (of course I'm joking regardless).


Anyway, I wish Aaron Rodgers would finally come out. I'd love to see some Packers fans reactions. The guy is likely gay, or at least bisexual. imo.
yooperfan
8 years ago

Marquand Manuel, was one of Ted's not-so-good FA signings

Originally Posted by: Rockmolder 


My opinion of that signing, because it made no sense, was that he he was a love object.
It appears to have turned out bad in all all regards.

yooperfan
8 years ago

I love the fact that some people here actually took the time to actually respond with thought out answers. That was what I was hoping for.
I thank those of you that did that!

Originally Posted by: Cheesey 


I have spent the better part of an hour pondering this question, I don't know if you will like my well thought out response Cheesemaistro.
I like men.
I like em to work with.
I like em to drink with.
I like em to argue with.
And I like em to fight with.
When that's all done I like to go home to my wife for a little TLC.

Cheesey
  • Cheesey
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
8 years ago
I actually liked your response, Yoop!!!
I had a dear friend several years ago that I loved. He was the best man at my wedding, and I thought we would remain "besties" forever. Alas, he moved away to Florida, fell in with "partiers" and because I don't fit in with that kind of crowd, we lost touch.

I would have given my very life for the man. It still pains me to think about him.
It never was anything even close to a sexual thing, but I told him I loved him and he said so back to me.
\
My Dad taught me when I was young to NEVER feel bad about telling someone you love them. You never know when it might be the last time you see them.
The night before my Dad died, I told him I loved him and he said it back to me. Neither of us knew it would be the last time.
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