steveishere
8 years ago

Yeah, and so what? We are saying that Aaron Rodgers likely hasn't been as good so far as one of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game going along with THE best coach to ever coach (try to deny that fact objectively)? That's not exactly shocking. If Tom Brady is the metric by which all quarterbacks are compared, there aren't going to be many other successful quarterbacks in the history of the NFL. Tom Brady has been a great player despite his physical limitations and he has had the best coach ever behind him at all times. I have no doubt Aaron Rodgers would have had much more success if he was coached by Bill Belichick rather than ho hum Mike McCarthy. McCarthy might be a good coach, but Belichick STOMPS him.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



Yeah, and so what? We are saying that Mike McCarthy likely hasn't been as good so far as one of the best coaches to ever play the game going along with one of THE best QBs to ever QB (try to deny that fact objectively)? That's not exactly shocking. If Belichick is the metric by which all coaches are compared, there aren't going to be many other successful coaches in the history of the NFL.

I think the point is people keep acting like it's all TTs fault that we haven't won more Superbowls with Rodgers at QB and it's some absurd thing without acknowledging the reality of Rodgers' responsibility for many of our playoff exits. People just make mountains of excuses for him because he's more likeable than any GM or coach.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
8 years ago
So if Bill/Bill is better than Ted/Mike because he had Brady, does that mean Vince/Vince was better than Ted/Mike because he had Starr?

I'm perfectly okay with looking at Ted and Mike as a package. Then again, who hired Mike?

I happen to think that Rodgers (except for last year) is better than Brady at their position. (And he is certainly better than, ahem, Matt Cassell.) But unlike Brady, Rodgers has never had a stud OL or a stud DL. And who is responsible for the quality of OL and DL players the Packers have (or more often haven't) had over the last decade?

For example, this year, the OL was as good as it has ever been under Ted's management. And it was -- still -- no better than a middle-of-the-road OL:
Bakhtiari: last year, makes the step up to average.
Sitton: declined from absolute stud to still damn good.
Center: declined from slightly above average to below average.
Lang: Above average.
Bulaga: Average to below average.
Backups: Below average on good days.

Tell me, which position group has Belichek never been above this "middle of the road"quality in his entire tenure as GM/HC?
Off.backfield? No. WR/TE? No. No. OL? no. DL? No. LB? No. DB? No.

Belichek has had weak position groups in his tenure. But he has never had a position group that for an entire decade has never got beyond "middle of the road." I'm not sure he's ever went five years with a position or position group always at "middle of the road" or worse. Maybe punter.

Ted? How many years has the DL been below average? How many years were safeties average? How many years was LB corps (except for Matthews) average or worse?
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
DoddPower
8 years ago

I think the point is people keep acting like it's all TTs fault that we haven't won more Superbowls with Rodgers at QB and it's some absurd thing without acknowledging the reality of Rodgers' responsibility for many of our playoff exits. People just make mountains of excuses for him because he's more likeable than any GM or coach.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Yeah, well that's not fair when people only point the blame to Ted Thompson. Although, it's fair to some extent, since he is essentially the boss. It's much like the President of the United States. Obviously everything that George W. Bush or Obama have been blamed for isn't directly their fault, but the buck stops there for many.

I have said Aaron Rodgers needs to play better for at least a few years now. People make him out to be better than he really is in some ways. But I still think he is plenty good enough to win another Super Bowl as long as the rest of the team is pretty darn good too. It can't all be on the QB. If the QB isn't getting it done, then find a way to improve the rest of the team to take a lot of the pressure off the QB.

nerdmann
8 years ago

So if Bill/Bill is better than Ted/Mike because he had Brady, does that mean Vince/Vince was better than Ted/Mike because he had Starr?

I'm perfectly okay with looking at Ted and Mike as a package. Then again, who hired Mike?

I happen to think that Rodgers (except for last year) is better than Brady at their position. (And he is certainly better than, ahem, Matt Cassell.) But unlike Brady, Rodgers has never had a stud OL or a stud DL. And who is responsible for the quality of OL and DL players the Packers have (or more often haven't) had over the last decade?

For example, this year, the OL was as good as it has ever been under Ted's management. And it was -- still -- no better than a middle-of-the-road OL:
Bakhtiari: last year, makes the step up to average.
Sitton: declined from absolute stud to still damn good.
Center: declined from slightly above average to below average.
Lang: Above average.
Bulaga: Average to below average.
Backups: Below average on good days.

Tell me, which position group has Belichek never been above this "middle of the road"quality in his entire tenure as GM/HC?
Off.backfield? No. WR/TE? No. No. OL? no. DL? No. LB? No. DB? No.

Belichek has had weak position groups in his tenure. But he has never had a position group that for an entire decade has never got beyond "middle of the road." I'm not sure he's ever went five years with a position or position group always at "middle of the road" or worse. Maybe punter.

Ted? How many years has the DL been below average? How many years were safeties average? How many years was LB corps (except for Matthews) average or worse?

Originally Posted by: Wade 



Mikes problem is his fear-based game management. That has cost us the last two post seasons. And more.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
isocleas2
8 years ago
Since Karlos Dansby was cut by the browns I've been thinking he would be an interesting addition if he'll sign cheaply. He's old and only has a couple more years in the league but he was a better ILB last year than anyone on our roster not named Mathews. He's also been paid well for awhile now so he may take a 1-2 year vet minimum contract to play with a contender.
musccy
8 years ago

Since Karlos Dansby was cut by the browns I've been thinking he would be an interesting addition if he'll sign cheaply. He's old and only has a couple more years in the league but he was a better ILB last year than anyone on our roster not named Mathews. He's also been paid well for awhile now so he may take a 1-2 year vet minimum contract to play with a contender.

Originally Posted by: isocleas2 



The Packers already had coverage issues with young guys like Ryan. Not sure the team needs another old liability trying to cover a 23 year old TE or RB out of the backfield.
isocleas2
8 years ago

The Packers already had coverage issues with young guys like Ryan. Not sure the team needs another old liability trying to cover a 23 year old TE or RB out of the backfield.

Originally Posted by: musccy 



I know he's old but it sounds like his coverage ability hasn't diminished much. Maybe someone else can chime in who's more informed on Dansby but the articles I've read seem to think he could help in that regard.

http://totalpackers.com/2016/03/karlos-dansby-names-packers-among-desired-teams/ 
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (14-Feb) : Packers are hiring Luke Getsy as senior offensive assistant.
Martha Careful (12-Feb) : I would love to have them both, esp. Crosby, but either might be too expensive.
Zero2Cool (12-Feb) : Keisean Nixon is trying to get Maxx Crosby and Davante Adams lol
Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : or did you resctrict access to that topic?
packerfanoutwest (11-Feb) : why did you remove the Playoff topic?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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