Blitz
16 years ago


Look at Vietnam.......had we gone in with all of our forces, we could have won and ended that war in a few weeks.

"Cheesey" wrote:



Same could be said of any military action taken since then.
Who stands to benefit by these long, drawn-out conflicts? Follow the money & you will find the answers.

Have they finished that super highway from Mexico into the USA & Canada yet?

Turn off the televison news & use the internet while you are still allowed.

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Obama could be your last chance. But if he's part of it, we're all screwed.
"... There.. is.. your.. dagger..!! "
Cheesey
16 years ago


Look at Vietnam.......had we gone in with all of our forces, we could have won and ended that war in a few weeks.

"Blitz" wrote:



Same could be said of any military action taken since then.
Who stands to benefit by these long, drawn-out conflicts? Follow the money & you will find the answers.

Have they finished that super highway from Mexico into the USA & Canada yet?

Turn off the televison news & use the internet while you are still allowed.

UserPostedImage

Obama could be your last chance. But if he's part of it, we're all screwed.

"Cheesey" wrote:


None of this is any surprise to me........there will be a one world government. It's just a matter of when.
The Bible said it will happen. I was just hoping it would be after i'm gone.

Iraq, Iran....heck, just about ALL of the Arab nations are constantly at each other's throats. They can't get along with each other, why should we expect them to get along with anyone else?
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Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
I actually think a world government is farther away than ever before. The UN is in shambles. The current geopolitical trend is toward devolution, not amalgamation. Nationalism is all but dead in Europe, and people identify more with their ethnicities or as Europeans than as citizens of their nations (citizens of Germany in particular shudder at the idea of calling themselves Germans). Nations continue to split up into smaller and smaller states along ethnic lines. Heck, Kosovo just declared its independence. Countries in Asia are returning to their insular heritage and (I hope) slowly waking up to the menace that China poses for the continent.

It will take a true global catastrophe to unite the world under a common banner. A few bombings from insurgent groups won't be it.
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zombieslayer
16 years ago

Anyone who thinks the United States has stabilized Iraq has absolutely no understanding of Middle East tribal culture. When the United States finally pulls out of Iraq, that country will dissolve into its three main tribal fiefdoms (Kurdistan, Sunnistan, and Shi'astan), and thank God for that! Iraq in its current configuration is an "artificial nation" whose national boundaries were imposed by Great Britain around 1918 and is INTRINSICALLY unstable because Arabs are tribally oriented and have no sense of the nation-state, nor do they want to. There's a reason why Saddam Hussein was a brutal, secular dictator: it was the only way to keep the nation together. As soon as we removed that stabilizing force, the nation predictably dissolved into civil war (as a massive 1999 US military war-game predicted would happen, even were we to occupy the nation with 500,000 troops). Hussein may have been an evil man, but he was undeniably the right man for the job -- assuming it's a good thing to keep Iraq together at all, which I personally don't believe.

The only reason why the Sunnis had favored continued American occupation was they were were terrified they'd be cut off from oil supplies should the nation be split into three states (the Kurdish north and Shi'a south have oil, but until recently, the Sunni central region had none). Now that a potentially lucrative oil field has been discovered in central Iraq, look for Sunni support of nationhood to dissolve steadily.

From the beginning of the occupation, the national government has been largely a figurehead, with most of the power residing in the provincial governments. Twenty years from now, look for "Iraq" (if the name exists at all) to be at most a nominally federal entity -- the Confederation of Iraqi States, if you will. But the real power will reside within the tribal units.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Nonstop - I'm impressed. Looks like someone's actually done their research.

Yes, it was created by GB, and like many other problems the former European imperialists did, they abandoned them and for some reason we took them over. Look at 'Nam and France. Heck, I can think of a lot of examples but don't want to derail this topic.

Why is it always us? I'm paying a ridiculous amount of taxmoney for this? I work my tail off every year and I assume most of you do too. I want my money and I'm sure you want yours. Just imagine if our government said "you know what? We're going to not spend all your money and with the surplus, we're going to give it back to you. Sorry for wasting your tax money in the past. We're not going to do that any more."

Iraq is a money pit. What's even worse is several thousand Americans are now dead and let's just say we "win" this war. How long will that "victory" last until we have to go in again? Then again? Then again? Then again?

These people will fight for eternity. It shouldn't be our problem.
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Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago

Why is it always us? I'm paying a ridiculous amount of taxmoney for this?

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Perhaps you can take comfort in the fact it's not actually your tax dollars paying for this war. 😉 As most of us know, after years of continued tax cuts, this war is primarily being funded through moneys borrowed from foreign nations, which will have to be repaid somehow by your children and grandchildren.

Chillingly, China and Japan collectively own 60% of our foreign-held debt. However, in the past few months, Japan has become a net seller of T-bonds, despite the fact that at the height of the credit crunch, T-bond rates briefly bottomed out at 0.0%. What this says to me is that Japan sees little or no future in US federal debt certificates and is (quietly) getting out as fast as it can. To put it another way, the faucet on our orgy of borrowing over the past 30 years is slowly being turned off.

Sooner or later we're going to have to figure out a way to run our federal government on domestically levied tax revenues alone. The only conceivable way to do that is to slash the size of our government to constitutional levels. Socialism may be a sustainable model for small European states (and even most of them have migrated toward capitalistic economies), but I don't think it is a viable alternative for a huge country of 300 million people.
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zombieslayer
16 years ago
I'm going to live to be in my 90s. So yes, it is MY tax money. I got another 60 years left or so and I'll be paying taxes all those years as by then, I'll be living off my investments and taking cash from them every month.

As for Japan, they're probably smart. You can't keep going deeper and deeper into debt. The money eventually will be worthless.

Now China owning our debt, that's where I have a big problem. They don't exactly like us.

Agreed about socialism. Won't work here. We're going to have to cut spending, and yes that means getting out of all these pointless wars.
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Cheesey
16 years ago
How about the "Euro?"
Thats the start of a one world government. All countries using the same kind of money.
All it would take is say, the stock exchange closing, and a few more wars breaking out. People losing their jobs, companies going under.Then, a "saviour" makes peace with the "world", and everything SEEMS great for awhile.
Hmmm....seems i've heard that somewhere before........
And, who hasn't noticed how the "world" is falling all over Obama?
Maybe it's all just coincidence.
Yeah.....maybe......
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Rockmolder
16 years ago
Asia is curently dependend on all kinds of American stuff, though. That seems to be the only reason they're not cutting off the money supply. I don't see them pulling out that soon. Maybe when they become the real economic power.

And about the Euro... it is indeed a shared coin, but it seems to be more about a bond in Europe, which we never really had. You have a quite low percentage of import and export tax on Canada for instance, while we used to be a very devided continent. Now we pay nothing to nearly nothing. That's just one of the things.

All these open borders is not something I'm not to happy about. I'm just as proud to be Dutch as you are to be American. Ofcourse we have some rotten apple, but in my eyes, it's a great country. Now I'm open to immigration etc. But I'd like to keep this country the Netherlands. It's not that big of an issue right now (Most immigrants work jobs we're 'to good for'), but I wouldn't like to see a 40% Dutch, 40% European and 20% Turkish/Maroccan etc.

I know I'm spinning off and this is quite far fetched, though. If you have read my previous posts, I asume you know I'm quite on the left side, liberal as you would call it I think. Also, I'm not trying to offend anyone here either.
zombieslayer
16 years ago

Asia is curently dependend on all kinds of American stuff, though. That seems to be the only reason they're not cutting off the money supply. I don't see them pulling out that soon. Maybe when they become the real economic power.

And about the Euro... it is indeed a shared coin, but it seems to be more about a bond in Europe, which we never really had. You have a quite low percentage of import and export tax on Canada for instance, while we used to be a very devided continent. Now we pay nothing to nearly nothing. That's just one of the things.

All these open borders is not something I'm not to happy about. I'm just as proud to be Dutch as you are to be American. Ofcourse we have some rotten apple, but in my eyes, it's a great country. Now I'm open to immigration etc. But I'd like to keep this country the Netherlands. It's not that big of an issue right now (Most immigrants work jobs we're 'to good for'), but I wouldn't like to see a 40% Dutch, 40% European and 20% Turkish/Maroccan etc.

I know I'm spinning off and this is quite far fetched, though. If you have read my previous posts, I asume you know I'm quite on the left side, liberal as you would call it I think. Also, I'm not trying to offend anyone here either.

"Rockmolder" wrote:



Rock - I love hearing European sides of things. I think a lot of Europeans are afraid to say what they really feel because as politically correct as America has become, we got it from Europe and it's 10 times worse there.

Immigration seems to be a much worse problem over there then it is here. It's a HUGE problem in France, but France has become so politically correct that Brigitte Bardot will probably be fined for speaking her mind. Yes, it is illegal to say things like that over there. They're even considering jail time, and she's a frail old lady with a walker.

The Dutch are great people, as I've said, I've listed you guys as in my top five for nicest people in the world. But start watching more of your talented people getting killed for offending Islam and that will change. I personally feel you have become way too tolerant for your own good.

But alas, not trying to single you out for censorship. It's happening here too. You should have seen all the problems South Park has had with censorship. Too many people take South Park for granted out here, just wait until it's off the air and nothing will replace it.

Don't worry about offending anyone here. I've offended and have been offended by different posters but we're all friends still. It's all a learning experience, and self-censoring is actually hindering us from learning more about you.
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Rockmolder
16 years ago

Don't worry about offending anyone here. I've offended and have been offended by different posters but we're all friends still. It's all a learning experience, and self-censoring is actually hindering us from learning more about you.

"zombieslayer" wrote:



That, I might jump into later on. It has its reasons.

I think you might be right about to tolerant and your censorship story reminded me of something I saw on the news just a day earlier. Now this guy is taking it to extremes, but I think it has some relevancy to this thread.

Geert Wilders, the politician that made Fitna (Don't know if you heared about it, it was all over the news here) made some remarks and will now be sued. He said something around the lines of 'The Koran is just as bad as Mein Kampf'. Like I said he's taking it to extremes.

On a talkshow later that day, he said he regretted his remarks and appolagized to the Germans. Now, I don't totally agree with this man, but it's on the thin line between freedom of speech and offending to another culture.

I think he will be killed soon, like Theo van Gogh and Pim Fortuyn.

Where I'm going, I have no idea, it just reminded me off this. I had something that was relevant, but I'm watching Family Guy and I forgot. I'll edit this thread as soon as I'll remember.
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