Cheesey
16 years ago

Don't worry about offending anyone here. I've offended and have been offended by different posters but we're all friends still. It's all a learning experience, and self-censoring is actually hindering us from learning more about you.

"Rockmolder" wrote:



Geert Wilders, the politician that made Fitna (Don't know if you heared about it, it was all over the news here) made some remarks and will now be sued. He said something around the lines of 'The Koran is just as bad as Mein Kampf'. Like I said he's taking it to extremes.

On a talkshow later that day, he said he regretted his remarks and appolagized to the Germans. Now, I don't totally agree with this man, but it's on the thin line between freedom of speech and offending to another culture.

"zombieslayer" wrote:


Sad part is.....the guy is right.
The Koran tells them to kill everyone that doesn't believe as they believe.
Pretty "Hitler" like, wouldn't you say?
A book that tells you to kill anyone that doesn't believe as you do is more offensive then anything if you ask me.
And someone that has the GUTS to face and say it should be praised, not put down.
JMO of course.
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Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
Cheesey, have you ever read the Qur'an? I have, in both the original Arabic and English translation. If you can point me to a verse that says to kill the unbeliever (one that isn't taken out of context by Christian fundamentalists), I'd love to read it.
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Pack93z
16 years ago

Cheesey, have you ever read the Qur'an? I have, in both the original Arabic and English translation. If you can point me to a verse that says to kill the unbeliever (one that isn't taken out of context by Christian fundamentalists), I'd love to read it.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



I also have started to read it about a year and a half ago.. I firmly believe that we as an uninformed and baised nation judge it without even an attempt to understand it.

I decided I wanted to have a better understanding of it, the beliefs and really how radical some factions could manipulate the message.

A co-worker was from Saudi Arabia and was very pleasant to work with.. we spent a couple hours here and there discussing the religion and how varied the message becomes along that region.

Very misunderstood was I going into some of the conversations.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Rockmolder
16 years ago
I have no idea what is in the Koran, that is why I didn't put a personal opinion in there. I just stated what the guy said.

That said, I had something to say about it, although I can't remember what. Peter started singing with the proclaimers, I started laughing and forgot what on earth I was going to say.

We have a very multicultural society. I actually work with someone who's islamic. (sp?) We don't really talk about faith, but he's a pretty cool guy, nothing wrong with him.

I have to be fair and say that the Islam seems to be the least evolving religion. Where the Christiants for instance are not taking everything literally and are following the thought behind the storys, alot of Islamic people seem to literally obey the texts, which are outdated in many cases, if you read them like that. At least, from a western point of view.
Cheesey
16 years ago

Cheesey, have you ever read the Qur'an? I have, in both the original Arabic and English translation. If you can point me to a verse that says to kill the unbeliever (one that isn't taken out of context by Christian fundamentalists), I'd love to read it.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:


No, i'm going on what i heard.
That said, maybe you can explain to me why they want to kill us? And get their "72 virgins?"
I knew a muslim.......quite well. He was from Iran.......nice to my face.......he was in the Iran navy, then became an American citizen......denounced Iran, joined the US Navy.
Then i heard him say he lied when he said he denounced Iran, and he hated America. That i heard from his own lips.
Makes me wonder how many people that are here are like that.
We are "infidels" to them.
Why do you think we can't make deals with them?
Because their ONLY goal is to take out as many of us as they can before they die.
Not all Muslims are like that of course, but a large enough group that we have to be VERY scared of.
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Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
Why do they hate us? Hmmm, maybe because we drop more bombs than all the rest of the nations on earth combined? Maybe because we think we always know what's best and try to tell everyone else what to do? Maybe because we try to keep their countries humiliated and emasculated by preventing them from arming themselves, while we spend more on our military than the next three biggest militaries combined? Maybe because hundreds of thousands of children have starved to death over the past 20 years due to economic sanctions imposed by the United States? Maybe because Americans have no desire to understand Arabic tribal culture, and in fact harbor open contempt for it? Maybe because we are insistent on imposing Western ideas and practices that are wholly incongruent with their lifestyle?

It can't be a coincidence that in regions we drop the most bombs, there is also the most hatred of us. It has nothing to do with religion.

Years ago I read an article (I'm searching for it at the moment, but I can't find it) written by an Indonesian Muslim living in London who pointed out that suicide bombings are a regional response to a regional problem. They are not an inherent attribute of Islam itself. As he pointed out, if suicide bombings were a Muslim phenomenon, not simply a cultural phenomenon, why are they non-existent in Bangladesh, Indonesia, and other major Islamic countries in Southeast Asia? I have a Bangladeshi friend who made this same point to me a few weeks ago. Suicide bombs and insurgencies are a tactic developed in a region without standing armies in response to a perceived threat.

Yes, this gets into the whole topic of "Jihad" (easily the single most misunderstood concept of Islam), which I will be happy to write about in depth later. But I'm finishing up a term paper at the moment.
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Rockmolder
16 years ago
Your post made me think of something. Just a little 'tension-releaser'

[youtube]vlIm-riMN6Q[/youtube]
Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
lmfao! Ah, that brings back memories. I hated living in those tents. I actually knew and worked with some of the guys who worked at Abu Ghraib.

I love the moment (1:07) where Brian is pointing his pistol at Stewie and as he shifts, a spurt of blood comes out of nowhere and surrounds his foot.

I can't imagine in what MOS two privates would be carrying pistols though. Even medics carry M-16s nowadays.
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Cheesey
16 years ago

Why do they hate us? Hmmm, maybe because we drop more bombs than all the rest of the nations on earth combined? Maybe because we think we always know what's best and try to tell everyone else what to do? Maybe because we try to keep their countries humiliated and emasculated by preventing them from arming themselves, while we spend more on our military than the next three biggest militaries combined? Maybe because hundreds of thousands of children have starved to death over the past 20 years due to economic sanctions imposed by the United States? Maybe because Americans have no desire to understand Arabic tribal culture, and in fact harbor open contempt for it? Maybe because we are insistent on imposing Western ideas and practices that are wholly incongruent with their lifestyle?

It can't be a coincidence that in regions we drop the most bombs, there is also the most hatred of us. It has nothing to do with religion.

Years ago I read an article (I'm searching for it at the moment, but I can't find it) written by an Indonesian Muslim living in London who pointed out that suicide bombings are a regional response to a regional problem. They are not an inherent attribute of Islam itself. As he pointed out, if suicide bombings were a Muslim phenomenon, not simply a cultural phenomenon, why are they non-existent in Bangladesh, Indonesia, and other major Islamic countries in Southeast Asia? I have a Bangladeshi friend who made this same point to me a few weeks ago. Suicide bombs and insurgencies are a tactic developed in a region without standing armies in response to a perceived threat.

Yes, this gets into the whole topic of "Jihad" (easily the single most misunderstood concept of Islam), which I will be happy to write about in depth later. But I'm finishing up a term paper at the moment.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:


The ones we try to keep from arming themselves are mostly run by tyrants and nut jobs. Think the world is safer because the North Korean nut job has nukes? How about Saddam, who used WMD's against his own people, because they didn't agree with him?
Think people that are willing to wipe out thousands, if not millions of their OWN people would give a second thought about wiping us out? Think the nut job running Iran wouldn't wipe out the United States if he had the chance?
How about Japan in world war 2. They attacked us, and they wouldn't stop until we dropped 2 atom bombs on them. After the 1st, we gave them a chance to surrender.......they wouldn't.
How about Adolph Hitler? Do you know that before Japan attacked us, there were PLENTY of liberals that were screaming that we had no business getting involved in Europe? Yeah......let Hitler wipe out millions of innocent Jews and Polish people. Who cares about them?
All that is necessary for evil to win is for good people to do nothing.

Where were all the "human rights activists" when Saddam was butchering men, women, and children? Yup......all we heard was crickets.
Will it revert to that once we pull out? Maybe.....as it seems those people thrive on tyranny and thinking of new and better ways to kill each other off. But does that mean we should just take the view "Their just gonna kill each other off anyway, so we should do nothing to try to stop it"?

As far as them not suicide bombing in Islamic countries........what would be the sense? Those are people that agree with them! No reason to wipe out those that are on your side, right?
Again.....the ONLY countries we try to keep from arming themselves are ones that have to be watched. Ones that have a track record of violence against innocent countries.
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4PackGirl
16 years ago

Why do they hate us? Hmmm, maybe because we drop more bombs than all the rest of the nations on earth combined? Maybe because we think we always know what's best and try to tell everyone else what to do? Maybe because we try to keep their countries humiliated and emasculated by preventing them from arming themselves, while we spend more on our military than the next three biggest militaries combined? Maybe because hundreds of thousands of children have starved to death over the past 20 years due to economic sanctions imposed by the United States? Maybe because Americans have no desire to understand Arabic tribal culture, and in fact harbor open contempt for it? Maybe because we are insistent on imposing Western ideas and practices that are wholly incongruent with their lifestyle?

It can't be a coincidence that in regions we drop the most bombs, there is also the most hatred of us. It has nothing to do with religion.

Years ago I read an article (I'm searching for it at the moment, but I can't find it) written by an Indonesian Muslim living in London who pointed out that suicide bombings are a regional response to a regional problem. They are not an inherent attribute of Islam itself. As he pointed out, if suicide bombings were a Muslim phenomenon, not simply a cultural phenomenon, why are they non-existent in Bangladesh, Indonesia, and other major Islamic countries in Southeast Asia? I have a Bangladeshi friend who made this same point to me a few weeks ago. Suicide bombs and insurgencies are a tactic developed in a region without standing armies in response to a perceived threat.

Yes, this gets into the whole topic of "Jihad" (easily the single most misunderstood concept of Islam), which I will be happy to write about in depth later. But I'm finishing up a term paper at the moment.

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



this is why i love these discussions. we have to continue to educate ourselves because relying solely on the media is what got our country & this world where we are right now.
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