What constitutes a bust? The Good not Great thing really rings true - especially for Datone Jones. I was glad when we drafted him - Perry not so much. I did not want a primarily run-stopping lump at 3-4 DE. I wanted an athletic pass rushing 3-4 DE who could do a decent job of stopping the run too, but foremost, be a pass rusher. I could see Jones still be "good" in that role, but as was said, Julius Peppers he ain't. Furthermore, it seems like too often, the Packers like to have the kind of big lump DE that I don't like. That was Raji's role; Guion has done that at times; I think they intended to use Thornton that way. I want MOBILE D Linemen. Jones has been at his best, from what I've seen, when he actually plays NT in extreme passing situations. The sack he got against the Pats was that.

In general, I like the idea of Daniels at the Nose - obviously the Packers like him better at DE. Somebody mentioned Vince Wilfork; I would also mention Howard Miller and another guy I can't think of the name that the Packers got near the end of his career - HUGE guys - bigger and MUCH stouter than Raji, guys who really could hold the point and even push back. If we had somebody like that, yeah, I could see having a mammoth NT. But if you don't go all the way to that, then it is better to have a Mobile guy like Daniels than a lump who can easily be pushed around like Raji.

As for Perry, when he's healthy and playing his game - which has been almost never, he's a run-stopping OLB - a non-pass rusher at a position where ideally, you have a super athletic outstanding pass rusher. I'd like to see Perry gone this preseason - in favor of players like Elliot, Hubbard, Vaughters, etc.

So yeah, I'd reluctantly write these guys off as busts, given their status as fairly high first round picks.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 

I think we're getting carried away labeling people busts. When I think busts I think Justin Harrell or Derek Sherrod. Nick Perry and Datone Jones have already been better players than them. They're still on our team and can play, so they shouldn't even be in that conversation yet. If they drop out of the league after they leave the Packers, yes label them busts.

Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon 

Was Tony Mandarich a bust? I would say 100%, YES! However, he resurrected himself in Indy and played decently. He will FOREVER be considered one of the biggest draft busts of all time.

Jones and Perry have done very very little...much less than you'd expect for 1st round draft picks. Just because they're "better" than Harrell and Sherrod doesn't mean they're not busts, also...just not quite as big of ones. Still, the jury is out on both. Perry is a guy I really like and have advocated for but I can't continue ignoring the truth that the guy isn't producing for us for whatever excuse you want to use for him like injuries. The guy seems to be brittle or he's just has no heart. Hard to know. I love his power...he's strong as an ox but truth is, again, he's done very little to help the Green Bay Packers and that is the definition of a BUST. Someone who ain't helping your team at all, or enough. Call them moderate busts, if you must, but they're still below what you should reasonably expect from them.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 

Perry does help this team lol, thats a load of bullpoop. Busts are high draft picks that get flushed out of the league imo, these guys haven't even made it passed their first contract yet. Sherrod and Harrell never played when they were with the packers. That's the difference. Sometimes it takes awhile for players to develop, that doesn't mean they're busts. But people have their own opinion about it, that's alright, I just think we're over exaggerating here a bit compared to other guys.

Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon 

You're thinking of Howard Green (guy who pushed Legursky into Big Ben's lap so Nick Collins could pick a floater and return it for 6 in the SB) and Grady Jackson...big guy who came over late from Oakland and played well for us.]

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 

Averaging 3 sacks and 20 tackles a season as a 1st round pick is helping? It's almost the equivalent of watching a construction crew build your house and then say the guy who put the WELCOME mat on the porch "helped". Yeah, not very much.

Jamal Reynolds had 3 sacks in 18 games. Perry 9 in 32 games. I guess one could say Jamal "helped" with his 3 sacks in 3 years but we know he was a bust especially as a 10th overall.

Nobody is going to say we used a 1st round pick to complement Clay to get an average of 3 sacks out of him. Erik Walden provided almost exactly the same production and better availability as a street FA. I assure you we didn't draft Perry to get Erik Walden performance.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 

Well I certainly wouldn't say he hasn't helped. He's been good in run defense too, he does more than the stats dictate. He definitely needs to get it together this year though if he wants to stick with us, hopefully those nagging injures stop and he can be there each game and be consistent.

Originally Posted by: Gaycandybacon 

What constitutes a bust? The Good not Great thing really rings true - especially for Datone Jones. I was glad when we drafted him - Perry not so much. I did not want a primarily run-stopping lump at 3-4 DE. I wanted an athletic pass rushing 3-4 DE who could do a decent job of stopping the run too, but foremost, be a pass rusher. I could see Jones still be "good" in that role, but as was said, Julius Peppers he ain't. Furthermore, it seems like too often, the Packers like to have the kind of big lump DE that I don't like. That was Raji's role; Guion has done that at times; I think they intended to use Thornton that way. I want MOBILE D Linemen. Jones has been at his best, from what I've seen, when he actually plays NT in extreme passing situations. The sack he got against the Pats was that.

In general, I like the idea of Daniels at the Nose - obviously the Packers like him better at DE. Somebody mentioned Vince Wilfork; I would also mention Howard Miller and another guy I can't think of the name that the Packers got near the end of his career - HUGE guys - bigger and MUCH stouter than Raji, guys who really could hold the point and even push back. If we had somebody like that, yeah, I could see having a mammoth NT. But if you don't go all the way to that, then it is better to have a Mobile guy like Daniels than a lump who can easily be pushed around like Raji.

As for Perry, when he's healthy and playing his game - which has been almost never, he's a run-stopping OLB - a non-pass rusher at a position where ideally, you have a super athletic outstanding pass rusher. I'd like to see Perry gone this preseason - in favor of players like Elliot, Hubbard, Vaughters, etc.

So yeah, I'd reluctantly write these guys off as busts, given their status as fairly high first round picks.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker