uffda udfa
9 years ago
I never ever said I had a source... that is you, again, making misstatements. Even my good buddy defended me on this point that you continually keep making in error.

Here's something really fun... go read your commentary back before Randall signed: (greengold has some pretty bad comments in there, too)

http://www.packershome.com/forum/posts/t23117-Why-the-Packers-might-let-Cobb-leave/page4 

---As I said, to you, the org is NEVER wrong. NEVER. Even when you make wrong statements that blow up in your face like the ones in the link you still praise the org. I get you, Buck. Our org is perfect. It is to be praised blindly. That is your way. It is not mine and you hate that.

This is even more fun...you getting whipped into hysterics after saying in the other link that our guy never goes above his number and you praising him for sticking to his guns. He goes against the nature that you were promoting as awesome and then you type this:

http://www.packershome.com/forum/posts/t23144-Breaking-down-Randall-Cobb-s-new-contract 

---Honestly, I'm not sure why you even bother with me considering your record that is out there.
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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


nerdmann
9 years ago

I never ever said I had a source... that is you, again, making misstatements. Even my good buddy defended me on this point that you continually keep making in error.

Here's something really fun... go read your commentary back before Randall signed: (greengold has some pretty bad comments in there, too)

http://www.packershome.com/forum/posts/t23117-Why-the-Packers-might-let-Cobb-leave/page4 

---As I said, to you, the org is NEVER wrong. NEVER. Even when you make wrong statements that blow up in your face like the ones in the link you still praise the org. I get you, Buck. Our org is perfect. It is to be praised blindly. That is your way. It is not mine and you hate that.

This is even more fun...you getting whipped into hysterics after saying in the other link that our guy never goes above his number and you praising him for sticking to his guns. He goes against the nature that you were promoting as awesome and then you type this:

http://www.packershome.com/forum/posts/t23144-Breaking-down-Randall-Cobb-s-new-contract 

---Honestly, I'm not sure why you even bother with me considering your record that is out there.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



You were claiming to have multiple sources, iirc. You just didn't post the links. You put in quotes without links to back them up.

Now you want to act like you never said that. Figures.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
uffda udfa
9 years ago

You were claiming to have multiple sources, iirc. You just didn't post the links. You put in quotes without links to back them up.

Now you want to act like you never said that. Figures.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 




Multiple sources? Where did I say that? I cited sources for numbers bandied about AFTER last season. Posted two sources for those. Never said anything to the effect of what you're saying but I am used to it.
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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


earthquake
9 years ago
Uffda, people get on your case because you keep parroting a strawman. Of course it would have been a better/cheaper deal had Ted Thompson signed Cobb to a below market deal before last season. There is nobody here who would argue against that.

What people take issue with is the fantasy world you've concocted where Cobb would be stupid enough to take a below market deal coming off an injury shortened season. Cobb himself stated before last season something to the effect of "I haven't done enough to warrant a new contract" - paraphrasing of course, I can't find the exact quote. I think that says volumes about how he viewed his contract situation.

Rodgers' deal was a different situation, he wasn't coming off an injury shortened season and there were no doubts about his durability. Expecting Cobb to sign after 2013 is like expecting Rodgers to sign an extension after 2013 when he also missed a huge chunk of the season, his bargaining power would be very low and it would be incredibly stupid for him to do so.

I guess, yeah, it would be nice if all of the Packer's star players signed below market deals when they had very little bargaining power, but it's absurd to expect that to be the norm. You do realize they pay professionals to handle this stuff, right?
blank
uffda udfa
9 years ago

Uffda, people get on your case because you keep parroting a strawman. Of course it would have been a better/cheaper deal had Ted Thompson signed Cobb to a below market deal before last season. There is nobody here who would argue against that.

What people take issue with is the fantasy world you've concocted where Cobb would be stupid enough to take a below market deal coming off an injury shortened season. Cobb himself stated before last season something to the effect of "I haven't done enough to warrant a new contract" - paraphrasing of course, I can't find the exact quote. I think that says volumes about how he viewed his contract situation.

Rodgers' deal was a different situation, he wasn't coming off an injury shortened season and there were no doubts about his durability. Expecting Cobb to sign after 2013 is like expecting Rodgers to sign an extension after 2013 when he also missed a huge chunk of the season, his bargaining power would be very low and it would be incredibly stupid for him to do so.

I guess, yeah, it would be nice if all of the Packer's star players signed below market deals when they had very little bargaining power, but it's absurd to expect that to be the norm. You do realize they pay professionals to handle this stuff, right?

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Again, with the misstating of my view and labeling strawman.

How many times do you not read what I post? I have NEVER suggested the Packers offer an at market deal or below market deal to Randall. Yet, you claim that is what I've done in creating a strawman. There is none. I have said over and over and over that you give Randall a very good contract. The kind where when he gets it you say...Wow, that seems a little high for what he did last season. You give it KNOWING that he was capable of a 2014 season and many beyond that. We simply chose not to do that. Why you want to argue against things that are 100% true and irrefutable is beyond me but I get HOW you do it and it's by changing my argument to fit what you can debunk because there's nothing to argue against here.

WE OVERSPENT ON RANDALL IN 2015 because we did NOT have the foresight to give him the kind of deal to get that done and in turn we had to compete with 31 other teams and go above what we wanted to pay (which is sourced) to keep him. Somehow, LOSING money by waiting to sign him is being praised as a winning offseason by our management and it's being touted as the best offseason. Cripes, read the subject line and tell me that isn't absolutely 100% ridiculous. I have stated why over and over. Choose to keep misstating me.

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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


greengold
9 years ago

Again, with the misstating of my view and labeling strawman.

How many times do you not read what I post? I have NEVER suggested the Packers offer an at market deal or below market deal to Randall. Yet, you claim that is what I've done in creating a strawman. There is none. I have said over and over and over that you give Randall a very good contract. The kind where when he gets it you say...Wow, that seems a little high for what he did last season. You give it KNOWING that he was capable of a 2014 season and many beyond that. We simply chose not to do that. Why you want to argue against things that are 100% true and irrefutable is beyond me but I get HOW you do it and it's by changing my argument to fit what you can debunk because there's nothing to argue against here.

WE OVERSPENT ON RANDALL IN 2015 because we did NOT have the foresight to give him the kind of deal to get that done and in turn we had to compete with 31 other teams and go above what we wanted to pay (which is sourced) to keep him. Somehow, LOSING money by waiting to sign him is being praised as a winning offseason by our management and it's being touted as the best offseason. Cripes, read the subject line and tell me that isn't absolutely 100% ridiculous. I have stated why over and over. Choose to keep misstating me.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Players do not sign contract extensions a year early following an underwhelming injury shortened season. You cannot provide a single shred of evidence that Randall wanted to sign an early extension following the 2013 season when he had no bargaining power. This is the strawman you have created.


uffda udfa
9 years ago

Players do not sign contract extensions a year early following an underwhelming injury shortened season. You cannot provide a single shred of evidence that Randall wanted to sign an early extension following the 2013 season when he had no bargaining power. This is the strawman you have created.


Originally Posted by: greengold 



Yes...you are right about this... why can't you understand this? Why? Hello...McFly...Hello...McFly. That is the PERFECT time for the org to step forward and give him a very good contract that he wouldn't be expecting after just such a season. The sign could flash with a million lumens and you would miss it.

Overall, I'll rest of my original point that there is no reason to celebrate overpaying two guys we could've had for less.

UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


buckeyepackfan
9 years ago

Yes...you are right about this... why can't you understand this? Why? Hello...McFly...Hello...McFly. That is the PERFECT time for the org to step forward and give him a very good contract that he wouldn't be expecting after just such a season. The sign could flash with a million lumens and you would miss it.

Overall, I'll rest of my original point that there is no reason to celebrate overpaying two guys we could've had for less.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



You're original point was Cobb could have been signed for 5 mil a year.
Once again you were wrong and then the old Uffda spin starts.
4 pages later you solidified the fact that you are a one trick pony whose only agenda is to talk down to other members and bash every move Ted Thompson makes.

Name me another team who has their franchise QB, 2 of the best wr's, top 5 RB, top 5 O-line all under contract through 2016 and is still 15 - 17mil under the cap.

Seems to me there isn't a whole lot of over spending going on.
I was addicted to The Hokey Pokey, but I turned myself around!
sschind
9 years ago
This site must really not want my comment on this. This is the third time I have started typing a response but for some reason the first two didn't get posted. Lucky for you guys on the first one at least.

Several points to make.

1) Uffda is right about one thing. If we could have gotten Cobb to resign after 2013 we could have gotten him for cheaper than we eventually paid. I doubt anyone would dispute that. The operative word there is IF. The is nothing to suggest Cobb would have resigned any offer coming off of an injury shortened season.

2) Uffda assumes that we made Cobb an insultingly low offer and he didn't resign. He makes this assumption based on nothing other than the fact that Cobb didn't resign so the offer must have been low. He has no idea if Cobb was refusing any offers high, low or in between, banking on a breakout year and a huge deal later.

3) Related to the above Uffda assumes Cobb would have signed a fair offer or even slightly more than fair just because all players really want is security. His first claim of 5-6 million doesn't really seem fair to me and may not have seemed fair to Randall either and maybe that is why he didn't resign.

4) We don't know if the Packers offered him 5-6 million (or more or less) and Cobb turned it down. Uffda just assumes we didn't because he is certain Cobb would have signed for 5-6 million.

5) Cobb didn't need to resign and accept a lesser deal after a poor 2013 because he was under contract and had another year to prove himself. In some ways he had no bargaining power because of his poor 2013 campaign but in others he had the biggest bargaining chip of all in that he didn't have to bargain. He could bide his time.

6) Throwing big money at players coming off injuries is not usually something fan praise their GMs for. Yes his injury was one that would generally heal completely and not be anything that would hamper a career but that is not known for certain. Offering a more than fair deal would have raised the ire of many fans (uffda included I'd be willing to bet) had complications prevented Cobb from returning.

7) Going back to #1 yes, we could have had him cheaper after 2013 but we have no idea why he didn't resign. We don't know what the Packers or Cobb did or didn't do to get the deal done.

8) I for one think Cobb was banking on himself in the 2014 season and only a mind blowing offer after 2013 would have gotten him to extend at that time. I also think every Packer fan in the world would have called for Ted's head if he had made such an offer.

9) Take any random player of average ability or higher who is not at the end of their career and without any extenuating circumstances and the contract they will sign next year will generally be higher than the contract they would have signed this year. That's just the way it goes. Contracts go up.

10) Uffda is blaming Ted and the Packers for not knowing that Cobb would blow up in 2014 thus costing more money. I don't know why, maybe the crystal ball was broken.

Ya gotta love the drama.
uffda udfa
9 years ago

You're original point was Cobb could have been signed for 5 mil a year.
Once again you were wrong and then the old Uffda spin starts.
4 pages later you solidified the fact that you are a one trick pony whose only agenda is to talk down to other members and bash every move Ted Thompson makes.

Name me another team who has their franchise QB, 2 of the best wr's, top 5 RB, top 5 O-line all under contract through 2016 and is still 15 - 17mil under the cap.

Seems to me there isn't a whole lot of over spending going on.

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 



First, it's your...not you're. I can teach on more than just football. 20 years in media and your? C'mon, man. 😁

Go read my original point. I do like to respond to silly subject line posts.

I invited you, Buck, to go re-read what you wrote about our org while Cobb negotiations were on going. What did you do back then? Praise our management for sticking to their number and you were resigned to the idea Randall would be leaving as our org, who rightfully so to you, wouldn't be budging off their set number.

Fast forward to after Cobb signed his deal...here comes a post with all kinds of celebratory language from you starting off...That's how you sign a guy for 40 million and then conclude it with that's why our GM is the best. What an absolute joke. You were praising him for not budging...then he budges and you praise him even more. You are nothing but shifting sands that is going to praise regardless of what happens. You will notice I'm not like you at all...I said the same stuff then as I said now. We overspent to keep him...I was happy we kept him as I said we had to keep him and paying more to do so had to be done. After I saw what we spent, I was very disappointed in how much we spent because it should've NEVER come to that.

Have fun with your "you said 5 million"... run with it! I did say that...and I do believe it. I have no source and never said I did. Randall's comments about not wanting an extension because he didn't deserve one is a direct reflection of receiving an insulting contract offer. He was right...he did not deserve a crappy offer from our org. He is and was a budding star who knew he was worth so much more and was going to prove to us and the other 31 teams he was. RC said his contract situation really bothered him at the beginning of last season. Why would he say that? Why? If he was so freaking comfortable without one why did he say his play suffered and he was focused too much on his contract? Wake up. All of you... wake up. You can continue hating me but I'm right about this. I couldn't be more right. Our org didn't offer him a respectable deal. He didn't need anywhere near a 10 million dollar deal to sign but because or org CHOSE not to value him properly it had to pay more than it wanted to...TWICE...once after the 2013 season and then after it made it's offer after 2014 that still wasn't enough. It's a good thing Randall really seems to like Green bay or he would've just walked out of principle.

Randall wanted a contract...his own quotes prove that he was bothered about his contract situation...or org failed to step up and offer him a fair deal to end all of that for him. He should be signed and for a lot less than he is right now but continue the fantasy that our org did such masterful job and won free agency because we're just the best run org on the planet. The charade is cute if not maddening to watch play out here.


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