I just meant with the human judgment thing that I don't see anything Biblical saying God disapproves of earthly punishment according to human laws - we just aren't supposed to make judgments about the goodness or badness of people; That's God's thing.

No offense, but it seems like you are putting what is logically God's opinion ahead of what the Bible says regarding baptism. It really does seem to be there in writing as a requirement.

It is a puzzler - would God leave out Gandhi, for example, or pretty much any other paragon of virtue who wasn't baptized? Then again, I suppose you could say the same about believing in Christ or not, etc.. I have a theory about that which takes into account both faith and good works. The key to it is the first Resurrection when Jesus returns and the second Resurrection at the Day of Judgment. That's a topic for a different thread, though.

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Yes, the Bible says you are to be baptized, as an act of obedience.
Any time it tells of how to gain salvation, the Bible doesn't say "accept Jesus, AND get baptized for salvation."
We are to do it to show all other people that we HAVE accepted Christ' sacrifice for our sin.
Being born again and baptism are 2 seperate actions.
The Bible clearly states that salvation is a gift from God, not of works lest anyone boast. To get saved isn't accepting AND anything else. If true salvation is anything except Jesus, then why did He have to suffer and die on the cross?
We can't earn salvation, it is ONLY a gift from God's love for us. Our WAGES (what we earn ) for our sin is death and permanent seperation from a perfect God.

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"Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do." To me that is how Jesus forgave those on the cross who put him to death and the "Good Thief" beside him. It has also been used by scholars to explain why good people will still be included in the kingdom of God.

That was Jesus saying to forgive those that crucified Him.
If "being a good person" is all it takes to gain salvation, then Jesus dieing on the cross was for nothing.
And no one can be a "good person" according to the Bible. Just ONE sin is enough to seperate us from a perfect God. And every person except Jesus has-and will sin.
That is factual.
I consider myself a "good person". I try to help others when I can, I try to be nice to others. But I KNOW that my own righteousness is like filthy rags.
I sin every day. I get mad when someone cuts me off when I drive, I get short tempered when I don't feel well. I'm a sinner that has EARNED Hell.
Only God's GRACE has given me forgiveness.
GRACE
God's
Riches
At
Christs
Expense

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The Bible states that the "dead in Christ" will be resurrected (or taken up if still alive), and they will be co-rulers with Jesus in His Millenial Kingdom - on earth. In that, the first resurrection, it seems pretty clear that ONLY those who have accepted Christ/been saved according to the Means of Grace will be included.

A thousand years later, however, the Bible indicates that everybody will be resurrected - the Day of Judgment, and people will judged like a balance sheet - a balance of good deeds over bad deeds. The bad will be cast into hell - Gehenna - no indication of eternal torture like Dante and John Milton pictured, just burned up and unable to do any more harm. The Good will enter the Kingdom of God/Kingdom of Heaven - which will be ON EARTH - Revelation 21 clearly states the Throne of God the Father Himself will be on earth. Thus, the fundamentalist Christian concept of Salvation by Faith is TRUE, but the Catholic and others' concept of Salvation by Good Works also has an element of truth. The basis for judgment will be what was stated by Jesus: the "least of these, my brethren" thing, "hungry, you fed me; naked, you clothed me, etc." - how somebody treats others. That leaves Salavation open to Good non-Christian people as well as Christians. However, they will be RULED/well, co-ruled anyway by TeaPartiers ........ oops, slip of the tongue hahahahaha - True Christians.

So, Cheesey, the Bad News is: We might (I wouldn't want to judge) have to put up with Dakota for all eternity, but the Good News is that we will RULE him hahahaha.

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So young children who die and those who are extremely handicapped don't get to go to heaven?

It was a Deacon who told me that there is more to the "Forgive them..." statement just yesterday.

The Good Thief was forgiven without even asking to be forgiven.

God knows when a person is able to grasp/understand, and be able to make a decision. That's whst I mean. To say "yes" or "no" to Jesus. I believe that children that are aborted will be in heaven, as well as any that are too young or incapable of understanding.
I don't believe God would condemn someone that CAN'T comprehend.
But when you CAN make the decision that is when you are accountable.

The good thief asked Jesus to remember him and stated that he knew Jesus was innocent.
Jesus knew what he was saying and what was in his heart.
I'd say that was the thief accepting Jesus.
I know there are people in places that don't know the exact words we use, like "born again" and so on that are saved.
God knows, and that is what matters.
I never said I know it all.
I ONLY want anyone here that's reading this to have the knowledge that they can KNOW where they will spend eternity.
That is something I wish for every one here.
I want all of you to be in heaven.
I hope no one thinks that's selfish of me!
I want my Packer family there with me!

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Cheesey what type of Christian are you?

As a Catholic I must admit I was surprised when the Pope said a couple years back that even Atheists who do good can be redeemed and go to heaven driving many people insane. Obviously there is debate as to what he actually meant, but I do think there is a difference between denial and ignorance.

There is also then the question of whether Jews go to heaven. As Jesus died a Jew I can see how current Jews are denied Heaven for not believing that Christ is the son of God. Sure they have their own Covenant with God, but according to Catholic belief the Covenant through Jesus is the only one that matters now.

The kind of Christian I am is a Bible believing Christian.
When there is a question as to what to believe, I turn to the Bible for my answers. If what it says goes against what a man says, i side with God's word.
When a person is raised in a certain religion, it can be extremely difficult for them to see past what they were raised on, even if it goes against what the Bible says.
The Pope is a man. The Bible says to call no man Father, except for God. There are several things that the Bible says things contrary to what the Catholic religion says.
I understand that what you are indoctrinated with can be VERY hard to see past.
I was raised a Jehovah's Witness, and just about every thing I was taught as FACT, I had to face was in FACT wrong.
It took time (and lots of study from the Bible) to see what was the REAL truth. Was it hard for me to face that what my very loving parents taught me was wrong? You better believe it!
But before my Mom died I was able to lead her to the Lord. So I will see her again!
It isn't my desire to hurt anyone's feelings by my posts. But my fear of any of you NOT knowing how to be saved is the most important thing. If even ONE would get saved because of my speaking out, it's worth the very real possibility that some may hate me for speaking.
I hope im the end that people understand I only want what's best for them.
Religion is made by man. The Bible should be the final authority.

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Yes, the Bible should be the final authority, NOT the Catholic Church, NOT the Protestant Churches.

Every year I post something like this at this time of year:

Mathew 12:38-40 - The Pharisees nagged Jesus to give them a sign that He is really the Son of God.
Jesus said the ONLY sign He would give them was that He would be buried in the ground for 3 days and 3 nights like Jonah was in the belly of the whale. The various human run churches teach that Jesus was crucified Friday afternoon and resurrected Sunday morning. Did Jesus lie? Or are those human churches wrong in their Good Friday/Easter celebration?

The conclusion was jumped to that the crucifixion was on Friday because it was a Day of Preparation - the day before the Sabbath. However, what did Jesus and His disciples do the night before the crucifixion? They ate the Passover supper, and Passover - the day before the Feast of Unleavened Bread - is a day of preparation regardless of which day of the week it was.

The conclusion was also jumped to that the Resurrection was Sunday morning because the Bible says that is when the Apostles and Mary Magdalene found the empty tomb. However, Hebrew Law forbade them to travel on the Sabbath, which ended at sundown Saturday, and of course, they would not travel to the tomb after dark.

So when did Jesus rise from the dead? And when was He crucified? Passover in 30 A.D. was on Wednesday. 3 days and 3 nights from sundown Wednesday would be sundown Saturday, the end of the Sabbath - an appropriate time.

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