texaspackerbacker
10 years ago
I'm resigned to the fact that the Packers will likely not be getting Gordon now.

Partly that is because of the fairly urgent need that has developed to draft a Corner in the first round, and partly it's because I'm fairly sure Gordon will be gone before the Packers pick.

My new hope now is that my SECOND favorite team, the Cowboys, will replace Demarco Murray, who they just lost, with Gordon. Can you imagine! Probably the best O Line in the NFL and Gordon running behind it! I see Melvin Gordon being able to find holes, change directions, and break tackles equally as good as Murray - and Gordon is about twice as fast in football speed. He WILL be the third best RB in NFL history behind only Jim Brown and O.J. Simpson. Whether it happens or not, I stand by it - REMEMBER my prediction.

I will further state, if Ted Thompson was even half the GM that Jerry Jones in effect is, the Packers would have a dynasty that would last for all the Aaron Rodgers years. hahahaha I guess I'm leaping to the conclusion that the Cowboys will take Gordon if he's still there.
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QCHuskerFan
10 years ago

No idea where you are trying to go with the "we don't have enough CB's, DL, or ILB to field a defense" that's not even a slightly realistic scenario and has absolutely no relevance to who we spent a 1st round pick on this year.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Our roster currently has Shields, Heyward and Goodson. 3 CB's. Goodson has played in a total of 6 games. Is there a team that has a roster of 3 CB's on game day? How do we get more CB's on the roster? Free Agency and draft, right? So for every excess RB we use a high draft pick on, it is one less to address a position of real need.

Packers play a 3-4, right? So we need at least 2 ILB's, right? I believe Barrington is the only one on the roster. I may be missing one of the recently signed free agents. But if the defense needs 2 and we only have one, then I believe that we don't have enough. Kindergarten math skills! So, again, if they choose to use a high draft pick on Gordon, it is one less that they have to address a position of need.

As far as relevance, what was arguably the position of greatest need last spring? Safety? Who was our 1st rd pick? 2 yrs ago, position of greatest need? DL or RB? (DL= Nearly every year...) Pick? A team's need is absolutely of relevance to who they pick.

Could Gordon be of use? Yes. So could Peyton Manning, Percy Harvin, Demarco Murray, Dwayne Bowe, and nearly every player in the draft. But there is a cost to acquiring every player. Gordon with a 1st rd pick is too high for what little he would contribute.
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QCHuskerFan
10 years ago

I don't really care about history, those are other picks made by other teams with a 100% different talent pool. RBs drafted in 2011 have 0 relevance to this years draft class. 1st round Cs have worked out in the past? That's nice but that doesn't mean there are good ones this year, completely irrelevant. All that shows is those teams were particularly good/bad at evaluating those specific players/positions in those specific draft classes. It means nothing to how or who Ted Thompson should draft in 2014.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana

The question is whether smart people like TT, Schneider and others feel it is relevant. It appears that smart people have realized that you don't need to spend 1st rd picks on RB's. They are seeing the need to use them on core players such as OL, DL, CB and QB. But that is smart people that know what they are doing. Feel free to disagree.
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steveishere
10 years ago

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana

The question is whether smart people like TT, Schneider and others feel it is relevant. It appears that smart people have realized that you don't need to spend 1st rd picks on RB's. They are seeing the need to use them on core players such as OL, DL, CB and QB. But that is smart people that know what they are doing. Feel free to disagree.

Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan 



You miss the point. This draft is not the same thing as any other draft. Every single player is 100% different from every single player in every single other draft. Every position group is different from the position groups in every other draft. Trent Richardson being a colossal bust has absolutely 0 relevance to what kind of a players Melvin Gordon or Todd Gurley are. Those two may or may not be good players but whatever they are it isn't because of what RBs from 2 or 3 years ago were. Using the reasoning of what players picked in the past turned out to be is lazy and just is not very convincing, sorry.

I'll never get over the prestige and reverence people have for 1st round picks. Taking a player in the 1st round doesn't make them a better player it just increases the chance you'll get a good player but you can screw that up by cutting out half the talent pool and focusing simply on an immediate need. If it works out that one of your top guys is at a position you need to fill then great, if it doesn't work out like that then you don't pass up a player you think will be great. 1st round, 2nd round, 3rd round it doesn't really matter. Get some good players.
steveishere
10 years ago

Our roster currently has Shields, Heyward and Goodson. 3 CB's. Goodson has played in a total of 6 games. Is there a team that has a roster of 3 CB's on game day? How do we get more CB's on the roster? Free Agency and draft, right? So for every excess RB we use a high draft pick on, it is one less to address a position of real need.

Packers play a 3-4, right? So we need at least 2 ILB's, right? I believe Barrington is the only one on the roster. I may be missing one of the recently signed free agents. But if the defense needs 2 and we only have one, then I believe that we don't have enough. Kindergarten math skills! So, again, if they choose to use a high draft pick on Gordon, it is one less that they have to address a position of need.

As far as relevance, what was arguably the position of greatest need last spring? Safety? Who was our 1st rd pick? 2 yrs ago, position of greatest need? DL or RB? (DL= Nearly every year...) Pick? A team's need is absolutely of relevance to who they pick.

Could Gordon be of use? Yes. So could Peyton Manning, Percy Harvin, Demarco Murray, Dwayne Bowe, and nearly every player in the draft. But there is a cost to acquiring every player. Gordon with a 1st rd pick is too high for what little he would contribute.

Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan 



Shields, Hayward, Hyde, Goodson. 3 players with starting experience and a 2nd year player as a back up. More depth would be good for back up but it's not a desperate situation. Either way a 1st round pick probably doesn't even start next year, certainly not a position where you should pass on a more talented player in the draft.

Current ILBs that have a realistic chance to make the roster are Barrington, Bradford, Palmer, and Thomas. Matthews is still going to play some ILB next year too as they have said. Maybe you need to go back to kindergarten.

We get 7 or 8 draft picks depending on draft moves I'm not going to sweat 1 less if that leads to a good player at whatever position.

If Gordon is a good RB he wouldn't contribute "little". Our current RB gets concussions and other injuries often and suffers from asthma that gets aggravated by the cold. If we drafted Gordon he'd probably see plenty of snaps and the offense would be much better for it (especially in dec/jan). Like I said before the offense isn't made of 11 players, it's a lot more than that. "starter" is really not a very useful designation. I'm not just talking about Gordon though there are a lot of positions with good players in this draft that would be of more use than a mediocre player at one of the three positions of need such as a pass rusher or a DE.
QCHuskerFan
10 years ago
I don't think we are as far apart as it may seem. But this draft has the potential to be the 3rd in a row without a RB chosen in the first round. It is not fair to say there has been no talent at the position. It is fair to say that Teams are finding it hard to invest 1st rd picks and $ in RB's.

This draft is unlike any draft before it. But it is also exactly like every draft. Teams are looking to draft players in the first round to build parts of their team around. More and more, those players are not RBs.

There will be no K or P chosen in the first round. Again. For the umpteenth year in a row. It doesn't mean that there aren't some very talented P & K available. It means that those are not positions that teams place high value on. That is what RB's are becoming.

The Patriots have drafted a total of 3 RBs in the last 7 years. And that's not because they have a dominant RB in house. Their leading rusher in the SB was picked up off waivers in mid year. RB's are just becoming less important. Unless Belichick is wrong.

I don't think the draft is as clear cut as most think. I don't think there is much of a difference in talent between closely ranked players. So if you are Ted Thompson and sitting at pick 30, do you take Gordon who is your #29 rated player or McKinney who is your #30 rated player? I think Ted Thompson would go with McKinney.

The latest CBA has diminished somewhat the value (or curse) of 1st rd picks. But they are still a team's best chance to pick up a player of impact. It's still a crapshoot, but the odds favor them.
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QCHuskerFan
10 years ago

Shields, Hayward, Hyde, Goodson. 3 players with starting experience and a 2nd year player as a back up. More depth would be good for back up but it's not a desperate situation. Either way a 1st round pick probably doesn't even start next year, certainly not a position where you should pass on a more talented player in the draft.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Shields- good/ great player when healthy
Hayward- Injury prone, has not played outside CB
Hyde- such a great CB that he was moved to S. Played some slot CB last year.
Goodson- Not sure he has ever played a down on Defense in NFL

I would rather not have a backup QB or RB on the roster than go into the season with that as CB roster. If we ignore that we don't have 2 CB's that have played outside, and we ignore that one of them has had health issues, and if we ignore that Hyde played S last year, we're good! Maybe we can ignore the other team as well.

I think if Ted Thompson drafts a player he has rated as mediocre at #30, it would be startling. I bet he drafts someone he has rated highly at #30. Whether you and I do or not probably doesn't matter to him.
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steveishere
10 years ago

Shields- good/ great player when healthy
Hayward- Injury prone, has not played outside CB
Hyde- such a great CB that he was moved to S. Played some slot CB last year.
Goodson- Not sure he has ever played a down on Defense in NFL

I would rather not have a backup QB or RB on the roster than go into the season with that as CB roster. If we ignore that we don't have 2 CB's that have played outside, and we ignore that one of them has had health issues, and if we ignore that Hyde played S last year, we're good! Maybe we can ignore the other team as well.

I think if Ted Thompson drafts a player he has rated as mediocre at #30, it would be startling. I bet he drafts someone he has rated highly at #30. Whether you and I do or not probably doesn't matter to him.

Originally Posted by: QCHuskerFan 



Those are not the only options... Hayward has also played outside before just not exclusively but he looked fine any time he was outside and that was as a rookie and Hyde played slot CB last year as much as he played S on top of playing slot CB as a rookie, just calling him a S and leaving it at that doesn't get us anywhere. Hayward doesn't have a lot of experience outside but he's a good CB and I don't see any reason why he wouldn't be starter quality out there. I didn't say it was an ideal situation just that it isn't desperate. I just wouldn't expect a rookie CB to be playing significant snaps in this group from day 1 whether he was a 1st round pick or later so no reason to reach for the position.
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