earthquake
9 years ago
Your conclusions regarding PFF are based on your own biased and subjective views of EDS, so its a bit silly to act like this somehow nullifies the work PFF does. Additionally, one player out of thousands that you personally perceive to be incorrectly graded, really, this is the best you have?

Which team do you work as a scout for again? What is your background that makes you a more credible source?

As to why you should provide a better source, you're the one attacking PFF in the first place. If they are so bad, you must know of a better source, but its clear at this point that you do not.
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earthquake
9 years ago
Edit: F-it, not worth the effort responding. Merry christmas dude.
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uffda udfa
9 years ago

Edit: F-it, not worth the effort responding. Merry christmas dude.

Originally Posted by: earthquake 



Merry Christmas, earthquake. You're right...it probably isn't. It wouldn't be easy supporting the idea that an ecology major from the UK is the main analyst at PFF. We could band together and put them out of business. I trust me more than I do him.


UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Zero2Cool
9 years ago
Ridiculing and discarding an entire establishment based off one educational background is awfully foolish. Unbelievably naive perception and tremendously short sighted. It begs the question how one ties their shoes with such short vision.

If there were some concrete way to evaluating players, don't you think it would be used? There is no 100% accurate measurement. The inclusion of the ProFootballFocus ratings was not, nor was it implied to be the God rating system. It is simply another perspective. Why that can't be understood is really irritating.

No one has a bulletproof evaluation process, NO ONE. Not the Pro Bowl. Not the All Pro. Not You. Not Me. Not ProFootballFocus, NO ONE. Collectively though, IF you are intelligent enough to be open minded, you can draw a fair and reasonable conclusion of a players talent on the field of play.



If anyone thinks they can do gooder, they ...oh snap sorry *Application Period is currently closed


Analyst
ProFootballFocus.com is seeking a number of highly enthusiastic and dedicated NFL fans to join their analysis team. If you’re a passionate follower of football, looking to expand your knowledge of the game and get a foot in the door of the NFL industry, then you could have what it takes to become a part of PFF.

In working for PFF you will contribute to the analysis and statistics that make PFF so unique. Every person from CEO to newest member of the team has started off working on the collation of player participation data that can take upwards of 20 hours per game to collect initially and, although this does reduce considerably with experience, it is not for the faint of heart. Producing this data improves your knowledge of the game and put you in a position to represent the PFF brand through articles, etc.

The successful candidate must have:

● Demonstrable knowledge of the NFL product and what PFF does
● A very high level of enthusiasm and passion for the NFL and Pro Football Focus
● Excellent interpersonal and communication skills (both written and verbal)
● Ability to meet deadlines
● Positive attitude, strong work ethic, and excellent attention to detail
● At least 20 hours of free time per week

In return, Pro Football Focus offers training, an opportunity for you to develop your own profile on a highly regarded media platform, access to data not made available to the public (even via subscription), and payment based on work done in-season depending on accuracy. This is open to anyone regardless of location as long as you fit the qualifications. You are welcome to send a resume/cover letter, but this is not necessary.

* This is not a full time position and there are no guarantees it will ever lead to one. You will be required to produce work during the regular season to a deadline, but at your own convenience. While we do pay for high quality work, if you are doing this purely for financial reward, the position is not for you.



Goodness, it sounds like they only hire money driven fools. I'm cancelling my subscription immediately!
UserPostedImage
uffda udfa
9 years ago

Ridiculing and discarding an entire establishment based off one educational background is awfully foolish. Unbelievably naive perception and tremendously short sighted. It begs the question how one ties their shoes with such short vision.

If there were some concrete way to evaluating players, don't you think it would be used? There is no 100% accurate measurement. The inclusion of the ProFootballFocus ratings was not, nor was it implied to be the God rating system. It is simply another perspective. Why that can't be understood is really irritating.

No one has a bulletproof evaluation process, NO ONE. Not the Pro Bowl. Not the All Pro. Not You. Not Me. Not ProFootballFocus, NO ONE. Collectively though, IF you are intelligent enough to be open minded, you can draw a fair and reasonable conclusion of a players talent on the field of play.



If anyone thinks they can do gooder, they ...oh snap sorry *Application Period is currently closed




Goodness, it sounds like they only hire money driven fools. I'm cancelling my subscription immediately!

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



The MAIN analyst is the ecology major from the UK. It might be more fun to pretend he isn't to not have to challenge the thought in your mind that maybe PFF isn't as legit as you'd made them out to be.

Although we do have a number of other analysts, 90 percent of what you see on the current site has been completed by either Ben or I. I initially estimated that I might need 16 people, each analyzing one game a week but because Ben gets through so much analysis I now know this estimate was way out.

---I haven't sought out who this other guy is...I'm a little afraid to look. [grin1]

EDIT: Ooops...I just had to look...I just had to. I found this smile worthy considering the "professional" label hung on PFF in an earlier post. BTW, his name is Neil Hornsby? Isn't that the guy who made it big with that hit... THAT'S JUST THE WAY IT IS. I think I respect a popular musician's opinion over the guy who studied ecology in the UK.

Pro Football Focus (also written as ProFootballFocus, and often referred to by its initials, PFF) is a website published by PFF Analysis Ltd. that focuses on thorough amateur analysis of the National Football League (NFL) in the United States. Beyond posting the standard NFL statistics for evaluating players, PFF produces numerical grades for teams and players by watching and grading every player on every play.

--- So, two guys from the UK. I think I'll start a site and call is PSF...Pro Soccer Focus. I'm sure the Brits will respect me because I wind tapes of games over and over and give my opinion on what I've seen. [rockon]
UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Zero2Cool
9 years ago
One of them went to a college in Wisconsin. I deem that as why the C position grades high!


Whoa, this is fascinating...


Do NFL teams use your grades?
Yes. We have a number of direct clients within the NFL that use our data for personnel decisions and game management, we also have non-clients that have used our grades as an internal check against their own pro scouts. Most, if not all, teams have at least the bare minimum website subscription.

Our grades and stats are also heavily involved in contract negotiations as agents and front offices use our data to build their case either for or against potential free agents.

How open to analyst bias is the process?
There is always the chance that bias can creep into the analysis process, but we work hard to contain it through our training and review processes. Each analyst is trained extensively before being allowed to grade live games to ensure that everyone is on the same page. For each game, a first run is done on the game that is then checked by another analyst. If there are any questions about a particular grade, it is sent to one of our lead analysts for a final ruling. Due to the training and review processes, we feel strongly about our ability to remain as consistent as possible despite football being such a complicated game.

How can you be right 100% of the time?
This is similar to our previous question about grading plays without the play call. We don’t necessarily expect that our work will be 100 percent accurate (though it’s always the goal), but we feel very confident that we’re extremely close to that mark. When going through our grades on individual plays with members of NFL front offices, scouts, and former players we’ve gotten very strong feedback with very few grades questioned during our studies.

Why don’t you name the analysts who work on certain games?
Given the numbers of eyes that see each game, we don’t feel it’s necessary to name our analysts (though a simple look at our re-focused articles can be quite telling). Each game of analysis goes through at least three sets of eyes, just for the grading. Because of our rigorous training process and extensive review process for each game, we try to eliminate individual analyst bias as much as possible.



Three sets of eyes?
UserPostedImage
uffda udfa
9 years ago

One of them went to a college in Wisconsin. I deem that as why the C position grades high!


Whoa, this is fascinating...




Three sets of eyes?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



How many sets of eyes does a Packers game go through on this website? Kevin, you already have the technical know how plus you're a red blooded american, not a brit. You should recruit a couple of guys from this site and start your own site. It would instantly be more legit than PFF because your main people would be Americans who grew up watching and loving NFL football. You could move to Green Bay and brand your site as emanating from the mecca of american professional football. You think I jest...I'm not. If those UK clowns could put together a site so could you.

NFL teams subscribe to all kinds of resources. Central scouting is one such service... many things are used to try and verify some internal organizational thoughts. The Browns even valued input from a homeless man with their first selection last year. It's not some huge divide between being involved with the NFL and not.


UserPostedImage
Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


steveishere
9 years ago

How many sets of eyes does a Packers game go through on this website? Kevin, you already have the technical know how plus you're a red blooded american, not a brit. You should recruit a couple of guys from this site and start your own site. It would instantly be more legit than PFF because your main people would be Americans who grew up watching and loving NFL football. You could move to Green Bay and brand your site as emanating from the mecca of american professional football. You think I jest...I'm not. If those UK clowns could put together a site so could you.

NFL teams subscribe to all kinds of resources. Central scouting is one such service... many things are used to try and verify some internal organizational thoughts. The Browns even valued input from a homeless man with their first selection last year. It's not some huge divide between being involved with the NFL and not.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Every single person on this site could go ahead and watch every snap of every player in the GB games but they still wouldn't have anything to really compare it to. The most useful thing about PFF is they've got something to compare players to eachother. I don't know of any other service that offers that. I'm not about to go watch every play Maurkice Pouncey has played this year to see how Linsley compares to him and you aren't either. I'm sure they are all just wearing green and gold glasses and drinking Ted Thompson kool aid if they think a Packers player is good though. You don't have to treat it as gospel but it's another perspective to take into account. I will say I trust that site a lot more than I do pro bowl voting results.
musccy
9 years ago
Uffda...out of curiosity, did you major in pro football analytics, or what did you study between the ages of 18 and 22 that makes you a more credible source of info than a guy that studied ecology?
Zero2Cool
9 years ago

Uffda...out of curiosity, did you major in pro football analytics, or what did you study between the ages of 18 and 22 that makes you a more credible source of info than a guy that studied ecology?

Originally Posted by: musccy 



He lives in Texas, I think that is his only qualification and I would count it because Texas folk live, breathe and snort football from the moment they can crawl. I still wouldn't value it higher than what some NFL teams use, e.g. ProFootballFocus.com.
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Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : Even with the context it's ... what?
Mucky Tundra (20-Nov) : Matt LaFleur without context: “I don’t wanna pat you on the butt and you poop in my hand.”
beast (20-Nov) : We brought in a former Packers OL coach to help evaluate OL as a scout
beast (20-Nov) : Jets have been pretty good at picking DL
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He landed good players thanks to high draft slot. He isn't good.
Zero2Cool (20-Nov) : He can shove his knowledge up his ass. He knows nothing.
beast (20-Nov) : More knowledge, just like bring in the Jets head coach
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : What? Why? Huh?
beast (19-Nov) : I wonder if the Packers might to try to bring Douglas in through Milt Hendrickson/Ravens connections
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : The Jets fired Joe Douglas, per sources
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Jets are a mess......
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Pretty sure Jets fired their scouting staff and just pluck former Packers.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Jets sign Anders Carlson to their 53.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : When you cycle the weeks, the total over remains for season. But you get your W/L for that selected week. Confusing.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the total and percentage are the same as the previous weeks
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : the totals are accurate..nrvrtmind
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : I don't follow what you are saying. The totals are not the same as last week.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : ok so then wht are the totals the same as last week?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : NFL Pick'em is auto updated when NFL Scores tab is clicked
Martha Careful (19-Nov) : The offense was OK. Let's not forget the Bear defense is very very good.
packerfanoutwest (19-Nov) : Who updates the leaderboard on NFLPickem?
beast (19-Nov) : Has the Packers offense been worse since the former Jets coach joined the Packers?
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Offense gets his ass in gear, this could be good.
Zero2Cool (19-Nov) : Backup QB helped with three wins. Special Teams contributed to three wins.
bboystyle (18-Nov) : Lions played outside thats why. They scored 16 and 17 in the only 2 outside games this year
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : The rest of the NFL is catching up to Packers ... kicking is an issue throughout league
packerfanoutwest (18-Nov) : Packers DL Kenny Clark: We knew 'we were going to block' Bears' game-winning field goal attempt
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Lions seem to be throttling everyone, but only (only) got 24 lol maybe the rain is why
Zero2Cool (18-Nov) : Packers vs Lions game doesn't seem so bad.
beast (18-Nov) : Dennis Green "They are what we thought they were, and we let them off the hook!"
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : comment of the day Z2Cool "Bears better than we want to admit. Packers worse than we think. It's facts."
Mucky Tundra (17-Nov) : my worst case scenario: Bears fix their oline and get a coach like Johnson from the Lions and his scheme
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Bears get OL fixed amd we might have a problem
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Pretty sure they already have scouting reports on guys who aren't even starting for their college team. The future is now for me.
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : I tend to let Gute and Co. Worry about the future.
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
beast (17-Nov) : That's great news and Packers need to keep upgrading their OL, DL and DBs this off-season, so missing one guy doesn't kill them
buckeyepackfan (17-Nov) : Jaire and Evans Williams are both ACTIVE! Good news.
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : The badgers really need to change the whole offensive scheme. No draws no screens plus the quarterback is marginal
Cheesey (17-Nov) : If the Badgers had a decent QB, they would have won. The guy can't hit a wide open receiver
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : chop block
Martha Careful (17-Nov) : there was a very questionable job Block call that upon viewing replay was very borderline
beast (17-Nov) : How so? (I didn't watch)
Zero2Cool (17-Nov) : Badgers got hosed vs Oregon
packerfanoutwest (16-Nov) : damn,he hasn't played since week 2
Mucky Tundra (15-Nov) : poor guy can't catch a break
wpr (15-Nov) : wow. That three different things for the kid.
Zero2Cool (15-Nov) : MarShawn Lloyd has appendicitis according to Matt LaFleur.
Zero2Cool (14-Nov) : He probably plays DB.
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