Zero2Cool
10 years ago

Where is Corey Linsley's probowl berth? Heard about it for weeks how he was a probowl C. Another case of us overvaluing our own?

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



If we are guilty of it, then the ProFootballFocus.com staff who review and rate every single play in the NFL also have overvalued him. If you want to use a system that a fan who simply goes "Where is my team" as 1/3 of the decision making, that is your fault. [duh]

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sschind
10 years ago

If we are guilty of it, then the ProFootballFocus.com staff who review and rate every single play in the NFL also have overvalued him. If you want to use a system that a fan who simply goes "Where is my team" as 1/3 of the decision making, that is your fault. [duh]

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I think the whole thing about the players and coaches being a big factor is over blown as well. Even they are probably going to have a prejudice towards players they have played against or have heard of. I'm sure they don't spend a lot of time on it. Do you think anyone in the AFC outside of the East has really heard of Corey Linsley. That goes for the NFC West and East as well.

Plus a lot of the players and coaches probably don't even fill out their own ballots and those that do probably vote heavily in favor of their team mates. Linsley probably got more votes from the Packers than he did the rest of the league combined.

Its a popularity contest, more so with the fans but with the coaches and players as well.

uffda udfa
10 years ago

If we are guilty of it, then the ProFootballFocus.com staff who review and rate every single play in the NFL also have overvalued him. If you want to use a system that a fan who simply goes "Where is my team" as 1/3 of the decision making, that is your fault. [duh]

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



What are the credentials of the guys who work at PFF? I seriously don't know..do you? These guys rated EDS as a tremendous C during last year's FA. Really? Had him graded very highly. I think we all know he was nothing but a JAG.

Are these guys the types you'd find on boards like this or do they actually have some kind of credibility? I don't really know...I'm asking.

Linsely rates an 11. EDS rated a 14.6 at the end of last season. So, Linsely is not as good as EDS per PFF's own rankings. So, how good is Linsley if you're using PFF as justification when Linsley wasn't as highly rated as EDS who all of us would tell you was nothing more than an average center.

I do believe it's another case of overrate your own and Packers fans will fight over how great he is not because they think he's great but because the Packers and sites like PFF have told you he's very good.
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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Zero2Cool
10 years ago

What are the credentials of the guys who work at PFF? I seriously don't know..do you? These guys rated EDS as a tremendous C during last year's FA. Really? Had him graded very highly. I think we all know he was nothing but a JAG.

Are these guys the types you'd find on boards like this or do they actually have some kind of credibility? I don't really know...I'm asking.

Linsely rates an 11. EDS rated a 14.6 at the end of last season. So, Linsely is not as good as EDS per PFF's own rankings. So, how good is Linsley if you're using PFF as justification when Linsley wasn't as highly rated as EDS who all of us would tell you was nothing more than an average center.

I do believe it's another case of overrate your own and Packers fans will fight over how great he is not because they think he's great but because the Packers and sites like PFF have told you he's very good.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Regarding their merits, well, ask ESPN, Sports Illustrated, FOX Sports and the dozen of other large outlets that trust their ratings enough to publish the same information in their articles. That's not to say they are the gold standard of ratings and agents should use them to negotiate contracts, lol.

Point is, you said Packers fans and now I show you an outlet that is not fan based driven and you blindly discredit it because another Center you think sucks was rated well the prior season as a Packers player.

I don't think Corey is great, let us make that clear right now. I do not know offensive line that well at all. However, if you're going to compare apples and oranges under the guise of apples vs apples, you're never going to open your eyes.

It's not out of the question that a player can have a good year followed by a bad year. So maybe Evan Dietrich-Smith had a good year in 2013 and stunk it up in 2014?

Maybe the Packers offense is favorable to the Center position? That's the apples vs oranges.
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uffda udfa
10 years ago

Regarding their merits, well, ask ESPN, Sports Illustrated, FOX Sports and the dozen of other large outlets that trust their ratings enough to publish the same information in their articles. That's not to say they are the gold standard of ratings and agents should use them to negotiate contracts, lol.

Point is, you said Packers fans and now I show you an outlet that is not fan based driven and you blindly discredit it because another Center you think sucks was rated well the prior season as a Packers player.

I don't think Corey is great, let us make that clear right now. I do not know offensive line that well at all. However, if you're going to compare apples and oranges under the guise of apples vs apples, you're never going to open your eyes.

It's not out of the question that a player can have a good year followed by a bad year. So maybe Evan Dietrich-Smith had a good year in 2013 and stunk it up in 2014?

Maybe the Packers offense is favorable to the Center position? That's the apples vs oranges.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



The point is, if you trust PFF, and obviously your mind is made up, then it's curious that they had EDS rated very highly after his performance last season. Did anyone here or even the Packers themselves think very highly of EDS? No. He left for Tampa on a modest contract we could've easily afforded to give him. Why didn't we? He wasn't very good. Yet, PFF had him graded very highly. Saying ESPN and whomever publish their rating doesn't tell me if these guys are credible or not. Who are they? Fans like ones you'd find on boards like this? Who exactly are they?

I'm not saying Linsley isn't a good center. I'm saying fans get all whooped up on players because they are TOLD they're good without recognizing one way or the other if that's true. In my humble estimation, Linsley does a decent job for us...not a major liability. I don't see him as a dominating or game changing player for us. Perhaps, he'll grow into being one.

Again, the 2013 ranking for EDS was 14.6...right now Linsely is rated 11.0. To me, that discredits PFF's center ratings IF you're trying to validate that Linsley is good by virtue of PFF's 2014 center rankings. Clearly, their rankings of EDS were not reflective of the player EDS was. If 14.6 is supposed to be wonderful and I believe the guy to be no better than average, I hardly respect an 11.0 rating for Linsley.

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Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


Zero2Cool
10 years ago

The point is, if you trust PFF, and obviously your mind is made up, then it's curious that they had EDS rated very highly after his performance last season. Did anyone here or even the Packers themselves think very highly of EDS? No. He left for Tampa on a modest contract we could've easily afforded to give him. Why didn't we? He wasn't very good. Yet, PFF had him graded very highly. Saying ESPN and whomever publish their rating doesn't tell me if these guys are credible or not. Who are they? Fans like ones you'd find on boards like this? Who exactly are they?

I'm not saying Linsley isn't a good center. I'm saying fans get all whooped up on players because they are TOLD they're good without recognizing one way or the other if that's true. In my humble estimation, Linsley does a decent job for us...not a major liability. I don't see him as a dominating or game changing player for us. Perhaps, he'll grow into being one.

Again, the 2013 ranking for EDS was 14.6...right now Linsely is rated 11.0. To me, that discredits PFF's center ratings IF you're trying to validate that Linsley is good by virtue of PFF's 2014 center rankings. Clearly, their rankings of EDS were not reflective of the player EDS was. If 14.6 is supposed to be wonderful and I believe the guy to be no better than average, I hardly respect an 11.0 rating for Linsley.

Originally Posted by: uffda udfa 



Again, you said Packers fans over value Corey Linsley.

I shared ratings from a source (who btw is quite respected for their ratings) outside of the Packers fans that state Linsely has done well this season compared to other Centers.

I also pointed out that I am ignorant when it comes to the play of offensive line.

You said one thing about the fans of the Packers and I showed you it is not just the fans of the Packers who think Linsely has done a decent playing the Center position this season. What's the problem here?


Evan Dietrich-Smith earned a 14.8 rating during the 2013 season and you somehow twist that into ProFootballFocus being credit-less? Based on what exactly? Your opinion? I guess I don't understand what credentials you have.

ProFootballFocus has a staff that watches more than 256 games every year and analyzes every player on every snap and are widely respected for their ratings. Then we have you. No player evaluation credentials whatsoever. Gee, who knows more their stuff more? lol [grin1]

You bring up a point about the Packers retaining the services of Evan Dietrich-Smith.

First, lets compare contracts.
[list]
  • J.C. Tretter signed a 4 year / $2.58 million contract with the Green Bay Packers, including a $415,908 signing bonus, $415,908 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $643,977.
  • Evan Dietrich-Smith signed a 4 year / $14.25 million contract with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, including $7,250,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $3,562,500.[/list]

    • Then, do we know if Evan Dietrich-Smith wanted to leave?

    Finally, do we know if the Packers felt equally confident with J.C. Tretter (at a lower salary) to perform equally or better than Dietrich-Smith?

    Wow, okay then, that clears things up, yes?

    I'm going to go out on a limb here and say since the Packers were high on J.C. Tretter at the Center position, they felt they could get similar on field results at a fraction of the cost. We all agree that the ~$3 million saved on by not matching Buccaneers offer is more adequately spent on Jordy Nelson's contract.
    UserPostedImage
    uffda udfa
    10 years ago
    Actually, I said Green Bay has overvalued one of it's own, again, as they often do... and that led to fans doing the exact same thing.

    I'm not sure how you aren't following the logical flow of what I've said. It is pretty easy to grasp that if they thought EDS was a 14.6 player in 2013 and he was nothing more than just a guy, then seeing Linsley at 11.0 is nothing to get fired up about.
    UserPostedImage
    Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


    Zero2Cool
    10 years ago
    The Pro Bowl is vastly over rated. I think players have it in their contract that if they get a pro bowl nod they get a bonus. I wonder how hard it would be for a player to lasso some votes to help that 1/3 lol
    UserPostedImage
    earthquake
    10 years ago
    Feel free to link to a better database for offensive lineman grading. Really, any position for that matter.
    blank
    uffda udfa
    10 years ago

    Feel free to link to a better database for offensive lineman grading. Really, any position for that matter.

    Originally Posted by: earthquake 



    Well, why? You're comfortable getting your ratings from an ecology major from East Anglia University who graduated and went directly to work as PFF's main analyst. BTW, do you know where that university is located? Google it for a good laugh.

    I'm not going to spend the time watching a play over and over. I think I'm reasonably intelligent and have a good feel for how someone is performing over the course of a season. I mean, I'm not an ecology major or anything like that, though, so be careful with what I say.

    It's pretty clear their ratings aren't gospel and come to very wrong conclusions especially when you consider how they viewed EDS. It's a travesty they spent all that time and came to the completely wrong conclusion on the former Packers center.
    UserPostedImage
    Ted Thompson sits on his hands per former GM: "because they’ve had 25 fricking years of great quarterbacks. Of course it works. Try it without a special quarterback."


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