zombieslayer
16 years ago

That's purely retrospective thinking and leads to a post hoc fallacy: "The team was good in 2007, so Mike McCarthy must have been a good coach in 2007. The team wasn't good in 2008, so Mike McCarthy must have changed." It is a simplistic non-analysis that ignores all the other factors that contributed to the poor results of 2008.

Using such a unifactorial approach, you could make just as valid an argument blaming the season on the long snapper: "The team went 13-3 in 2007 with Rob Davis as the long snapper, but only 6-10 without him. Obviously, it's all the long snapper's fault."

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Actually, no.

One thing I noticed in '06 was when MM was frustrated, he buried his face into his playbook. In '07, I noticed he didn't do that any more. I wonder if someone called him on it.

But in '08, he seemed to revert to some of his old bad habits. One of them I immediately think of is he doesn't adjust as well when the game goes on. Adjustments were his forte in '07 (except in the loss to the Giants in the CG).

Sure, this isn't something I can prove, but it certainly appears to be the case.
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Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago

Adjustments were his forte in '07

"zombieslayer" wrote:



Maybe. I'd like to think you're right. But it's equally conceivable that adjustments were the team's forte in '07. Or perhaps they were even (gasp!) Sander's forte in '07. The truth is we just don't know.
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obi1
16 years ago

That's purely retrospective thinking and leads to a post hoc fallacy: "The team was good in 2007, so Mike McCarthy must have been a good coach in 2007. The team wasn't good in 2008, so Mike McCarthy must have changed." It is a simplistic non-analysis that ignores all the other factors that contributed to the poor results of 2008.

Using such a unifactorial approach, you could make just as valid an argument blaming the season on the long snapper: "The team went 13-3 in 2007 with Rob Davis as the long snapper, but only 6-10 without him. Obviously, it's all the long snapper's fault."

"Nonstopdrivel" wrote:



Come on nonstop. Davis was only in for a few plays every game and the coach is responsible for every play. You really can't compare the two.

IF you remember I said that this team lacked the leadership at midseason or earlier. How is it retrospective?

The players don't have the inspirational leader so they don't play upto the standard they did the year before. It doesn't have to fall on my head for me to acknowlege that the Packers played uninspired football in 2008.

Many who have played on championship teams in ANY sport will tell you that the inspirational leader does make a difference. How tangible was Lombardi's affect on the Packers? How would you measure it? In what statistic would it show up? How about Parcells?

The Great American inventor Thomas Edison once said "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration". So what would he have invented without the inspiration? Doesn't perspiration without the inspiration just create a sweaty, stinky body without accomplishing anything?

May be then we can conclude that the difference between the 13-3 season of 2007 and the 6-10 season of 2008 was that 1%. Packers played more inspired football in 2007... For whatever reason... Can we quantify that? Put it into some statistic to trivialize it so that the impiricists can understand it?
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DarkaneRules
16 years ago
I cannot even begin to imagine just how many things truly go into the end result of the games we see... all the players, all the coaches... their lives, minds, physical health and abilities. I see good things for every season. I think the organization is in good trusting hands from the top. I see no reason to think the Packers will be a team of mediocrity for the next decade or anything. I think we will have our ups and downs but the NFL is the league of parity.
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Nonstopdrivel
16 years ago
I would say the Ravens are playing uninspired football, particularly on offense. Certainly it's boring to watch. Yet they're winning. Is it because of some inspirational spark that Joe Flacco is providing? I doubt it.

I'm not saying you can reduce a season to numbers -- that would be absurd. But it's easy to indulge in simplistic analysis and overemphasize any one factor. I agree with DarkaneRules: the equation that results in success and unpredictable is just too complex for that.
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Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (4h) : sounds like Packers don't get good compensation, Jaire staying
dfosterf (7h) : Nobody coming up with a keep, but at x amount
dfosterf (7h) : Trade, cut or keep
dfosterf (9h) : that from Jaire
dfosterf (9h) : My guess is the Packers floated the concept of a reworked contract via his agent and agent got a f'
Zero2Cool (9h) : Yes, and that is why I think Rob worded it how he did. Rather than say "agent"
dfosterf (9h) : Same laws apply. Agent must present such an offer to Jaire. Cannot accept or reject without presenting it
Zero2Cool (9h) : I'm thinking that is why Rob worded it how he did.
dfosterf (9h) : The Packers can certainly still make the offer to the agent
dfosterf (9h) : Laws of agency and definition of fiduciary responsibility
dfosterf (9h) : Jaire is open to a reduced contract without Jaire's permission
dfosterf (9h) : The agent would arguably violate the law if he were to tell the Packers
Zero2Cool (9h) : That someone ... likely the agent.
Zero2Cool (9h) : So, Jaire has not been offered nor rejected a pay reduction, but someone says he'd decline.
Zero2Cool (9h) : Demovksy says t was direct communication with someone familiar with Jaire’s line of thinking at that moment.
Zero2Cool (10h) : Demovsky just replied to me a bit ago. Jaire hasn't said it.
dfosterf (11h) : Of course, that depends on the definition of "we"
dfosterf (11h) : We have been told that they haven't because he wouldn't accept it. I submit we don't know that
dfosterf (11h) : What is the downside in making a calculated reduced offer to Jaire?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers are receiving interest in Jaire Alexander but a trade is not imminent
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Jalen Ramsey wants to be traded. He's never happy is he?
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : two 1sts in 2022 and two 2nd's in 2023 and 2024
Zero2Cool (15-Apr) : Packers had fortunate last three drafts.
dfosterf (15-Apr) : I may have to move
dfosterf (15-Apr) : My wife just told the ancient Japanese sushi dude not enough rice under his fish
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I think a dozen is what I need
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Go fund me for this purpose just might work. A dozen nurses show up at 1265 to provide mental health assistance.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Maybe send a crew of Angels to the Packers draft room on draft day.
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : I am the Angel that gets visited.
dfosterf (14-Apr) : Visiting Angels has a pretty good reputation
Zero2Cool (14-Apr) : what
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : WINNING IT, not someone else losing it. The best victory though was re-uniting with his wife
Martha Careful (14-Apr) : The manner in which he won it was just amazing and wonderful. First blowing the lead then getting back, then blowing it. But ultimately
Zero2Cool (12-Apr) : I'm guessing since the thumb was broken, he wasn't feeling it.
dfosterf (10-Apr) : Looking for guidance. Not feeling the thumb.
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : If they knew about it or not
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : I don't recall that he did which is why I asked.
Zero2Cool (10-Apr) : Guessing they probably knew. Did he have cast or something on?
Mucky Tundra (10-Apr) : Did they know that at the time or was that something the realized afterwards?
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Van Ness played most of season with broken thumb
wpr (9-Apr) : yay
Zero2Cool (9-Apr) : Mark Murphy says Steelers likely to protect Packers game. Meaning, no Ireland
Zero2Cool (8-Apr) : Struggling to figure out what text editor options are needed and which are 'nice to have'
Mucky Tundra (8-Apr) : *CHOMP CHOMP CHOMP*
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : WR who said he'd break Xavier Worthy 40 time...and ran slower than you
Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Who?
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Texas’ WR Isaiah Bond is scheduled to visit the Bills, Browns, Chiefs, Falcons, Packers and Titans starting next week.
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : Spotting ball isn't changing, only measuring distance is, Which wasn't the issue.
Zero2Cool (2-Apr) : The spotting of the ball IS the issue. Not the chain gang.
Mucky Tundra (2-Apr) : Will there be a tracker on the ball or something?
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