Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
10 years ago
From a conversation in chat.

Smokey (31 minutes ago ): OK
Smokey (26 minutes ago ): I can get more colorful when posting about TT, yet it is just shouting at the rain . LOL
Pack93z (25 minutes ago ): But just to be clear.. Uffda was arguing many a point in there just to argue. Not truly debating the topic
Zero2Cool (24 minutes ago ): Shawn is right, we have a few folks who comment for the sake of argument.
Smokey (21 minutes ago ): Ted Thompson maintains the status quo, he fears failure if he deals and loses. Afraid to take a chance and win the big poker hand .
Pack93z (15 minutes ago ): Is it really the status quo or is it more or less playing the odds. His method ushers more talent through the door in a broad manner.
Pack93z (15 minutes ago ): If you sign a couple higher priced players.. your depth takes more of a hit in terms of being able to retain more mid level glue type players
Pack93z (13 minutes ago ): Personally.. I wish he used more of a blended approach.. filling known holes by FA.. maybe not the high end guys but the proven players.
Pack93z (13 minutes ago ): Or Trading for aging players in which you might have to depart with a mid round pick..
Pack93z (12 minutes ago ): But sticking to his core believe of acquire, develop and retain
Smokey (12 minutes ago ): Every team drafts, but forgoing experience for less expensive youth can rob a team of leaders.
Smokey (8 minutes ago ): get the proven players to plug the holes and WIN NOW, not sometime down the road.
Pack93z (8 minutes ago ): Agreed to a point.. but he does keep around experience.. guys like Bush, Kuhn, Williams are here.. what really is biting us right now is the lack of..
Pack93z (7 minutes ago ): impact players.. we have really only two. Rodgers and to a lesser degree Matthews.. Nelson is knocking at the door.
Pack93z (6 minutes ago ): We lack impact players on the defense as a whole.. Daniels holds some promise.. but after that.. ummmmmm.. Peppers maybe
Pack93z (5 minutes ago ): He hasn't mined out some true impact players.. a guy like Patrick Willis.
beast (5 minutes ago ): Dolphins brought in a vet for win now and vet leadership in Richie Incognito ... that didn't work out so well for them
Smokey (5 minutes ago ): He knocked down the door against the jets ! LOL Nelson is prime.
Pack93z (5 minutes ago ): Richard Sherman
Pack93z (5 minutes ago ): A guy that changes a gameplan
Smokey (4 minutes ago ): true
Smokey (4 minutes ago ): A Reggie White !
Pack93z (4 minutes ago ): And to be honest.. even FA isn't long on true impact players
Zero2Cool (4 minutes ago ): Drafting the offensive rookie of the year .. eh not an impact player!
Pack93z (3 minutes ago ): Okay.. 3 & 2.. are you comfortable right now to give the ball to Lacy to pick up a must have first down?
beast (2 minutes ago ): I've said before if I could make one change I wish I could go back and trade a 3rd (Alex Green) to the Bills for Marshawn Lynch...
Zero2Cool (2 minutes ago ): Yes.
beast (2 minutes ago ): But at that time when it was happning I was rooting against it because I didn't trust Lynch to stay out of trouble (but he has and good for him).
Zero2Cool (2 minutes ago ): or James Starks.
Pack93z (2 minutes ago ): Does Lacy force a DC to alter his game plan currently? Probably not yet.. as they probably would welcome a run to a pass from Rodgers
Zero2Cool (2 minutes ago ): If Lacy didn't have Rodgers, the answer would be yes, however, Rodgers is a SB MVP and NFL MVP, thus, DC's focus on him.
Zero2Cool (1 minute ago ): QB > * and who drafted him?
Smokey (1 minute ago ): Every team drafts, were talking about putting the icing on the cake, a SB victory.
Zero2Cool (1 minute ago ): and there is no icing available, that's the problem that folks aren't seeing.
Pack93z (1 minute ago ): Lacy is a bull.. no doubt... but he lacks something that doesn't make a DC cringe.. Speed. If Mike McCarthy would be patient with the run.. Lacy could wear down
Pack93z (1 minute ago ): a Defense.. and be a true factor.
Zero2Cool (1 minute ago ): Man, this would have made for a great thread ...
Smokey (1 minute ago ): the Offense is fine, the defence is in trouble
beast (2 minutes ago ): Watching Sproles go crazy makes me miss RB Franklin's potential... he could of been a great backfield WR just like Sproles
Mucky Tundra (2 minutes ago ): Eagles Offense=not something I'd want to run into in the playoffs
Pack93z (2 minutes ago ): I am a pro Ted Thompson extended fan.. I am just pointing out where we with Ted Thompson are lacking.. he is not incontestable in his decisions
Pack93z (3 minutes ago ): Cut and paste into a thread.. problem solved.

"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
  • Select Member Topic Starter
10 years ago
Summary.. in an honest debate.. what are the flaws of the Ted Thompson approach to building a team.

I will argue the is reluctance to use all methods freely sometimes hampers us in filling needs.

I am a firm believer in his draft/UDFA .. develop retain methodology.. but when we have noticeable needs / holes.. he doesn't utilize all avenues to fill that need. Even if you once in a while have to overpay to fill a need.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
+5
beast
10 years ago

Summary.. in an honest debate.. what are the flaws of the Ted Thompson approach to building a team.

I will argue the is reluctance to use all methods freely sometimes hampers us in filling needs.

I am a firm believer in his draft/UDFA .. develop retain methodology.. but when we have noticeable needs / holes.. he doesn't utilize all avenues to fill that need. Even if you once in a while have to overpay to fill a need.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



Thompson methodology seems to be draft and devolop using the kaizen appoach of business. Kaizen appoach meaning smaller incremental and continuous improvements getting the team better and better (in theory).

As far as building a good 3-4 defensive line most 3-4 teams have seemed to go after guys with length and I think that's been a problem with the Packers in the 3-4. Other than Datone Jones, 7th rounder Lawrence Guy and maybe UDFA Mike Pennel the Packers haven't really brought in 3-4 DL with length...

I think once when asked about length the DL coach made it sound like they were most interesting it leverage and talked about shorter guys with less length have been leverage because they're closer to the ground. But most of the successful 3-4 DLs had guys with length/height playing important roles. Also a number of 3-4 teams also had the random 6' guy like the Packers have with Daniels but even more closer to 6'4" with length.


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wpr
  • wpr
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10 years ago
I find GB a little weak in the development part of the draft and develop concept.

Add to that if a team/GM chooses to not be an active player in the FA process then they have to be stronger in the first few rounds of the draft. Uncle Teddy has had a few weak drafts in the past few years when it comes to rounds 1-3. He is above average in the lower rounds and in the UDFA market. Typically those are the players who add depth and are not game changing players.
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+3
nerdmann
10 years ago
Ted is fine. We have far fewer weaknesses on this team than we had under Sherman, that's for sure.

Right now our big weakness is at NT, but that is (as always) because of INJURY.

How many times do you have to spend a #1 on a T? Or on a NT? Say what you want about Justin Harrell, but he's far from the ONLY one whose career has been devastated by injury. It's a PACKERS thing, not a Justin Harrell thing. I might even go so far as to say the PACKERS destroyed his career, not that he was just a bust.

Even last year with the S position. Everyone likes to keep mentioning Nick Collins. People don't realize how good he was. But the position was open due to injury. How many times do you expect any GM to come up with a once in a generation type player?

But Ted has done it it at times. We lost Terrence Murphy, but look at how good our WR corps was for awhile there. Still is elite. We lost Johnathan Franklin, but we've got DuJuan Harris, would could BE a Sproles type player, if we ever decide to run screens to the RB. AND if we can make it look like something smoother than a Chinese fire drill.

Fact of the matter is, Ted gets guys. We just can't keep them healthy. And even when we do, the staff can't get them into position to succeed. Although to be honest, I'm waiting on the defense. Let's see what happens when the 4-3 begins to gel. They're still having to think out there.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
+1
TheKanataThrilla
10 years ago
I don't mind the approach that Ted Thompson takes, but unfortunately his draft and development strategy has been hampered by injuries on the OL and missus on DL drafting. My main beef is not addressing need positions with stop-gap players while we have a team that is a contender. Not making moves (via trade) for OTs when Bulaga and Sherrod were injured. Riding high round gambles at Safety after the career ending injury to Collins instead of FAs or trade. Maybe he tried and the price was too high, but I just feel we may be wasting precious years while A-Rod is in his prime to get another Lombardi. I would hate for Rodgers to end his career with only 1 trophy as I believe it will hamper where people view him overall when he retires.
+2
nerdmann
10 years ago

I find GB a little weak in the development part of the draft and develop concept.

Add to that if a team/GM chooses to not be an active player in the FA process then they have to be stronger in the first few rounds of the draft. Uncle Teddy has had a few weak drafts in the past few years when it comes to rounds 1-3. He is above average in the lower rounds and in the UDFA market. Typically those are the players who add depth and are not game changing players.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



What NFL team finds and develops more undrafted free agents than the Packers?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
steveishere
10 years ago
I think we could probably go after more bargain guys in FA, not necessarily just minimum contract guys or super expensive elite players but more of the mid range guys like when he re-signed Starks and Neal this year but with other players like when Seattle initially signed Bennett and Avril before 2013. I don't think it would hurt to sign a few more of those types of contracts in FA. That being said I don't know how often we do try to sign players like that and they just flat out don't want to play in GB so it's hard to tell.
+2
wpr
  • wpr
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10 years ago

What NFL team finds and develops more undrafted free agents than the Packers?

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



why are you even bothering to reply? Did you NOT read what I said at all or do you just not understand what you read?

I said and I quote:

He is above average in the lower rounds and in the UDFA market.

That means I do not have an issue with the UDFAs that he has picked up. By definition UDFAs are not NFL ready to step onto the field on May1 and play a full game. That is why they remained UnDafted. The is only 2 ways they can get on to the field. The first is to have every single player in front of them go down with an injury and the HC has no option but to put them out there whether or not they are capable to play OR to develop them to the point that they are NFL capable.

The Packers had not had the same kind of success with players who seemingly have more upside potential. Players who not only can actually walk out onto the field but also have a pretty good chance of excelling while they are on the field.

While it is always nice to be successful with a player that no one else drafted players taken in the first 3 rounds have a larger number of Pro Bowl appearances. They earn more All Pro honors. And they also more frequently end up in the HoF than do UDFAs. Give me an extremely successful first round selection over a pretty good UDFA acquisition every single day of the week.
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wpr
  • wpr
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10 years ago

I think we could probably go after more bargain guys in FA, not necessarily just minimum contract guys or super expensive elite players but more of the mid range guys like when he re-signed Starks and Neal this year but with other players like when Seattle initially signed Bennett and Avril before 2013. I don't think it would hurt to sign a few more of those types of contracts in FA. That being said I don't know how often we do try to sign players like that and they just flat out don't want to play in GB so it's hard to tell.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



It would be nice to hit on just one a year.

Not knowing what the player and agent say to Uncle Teddy's offer is the key. Every once in a while something trickles down to us peons but it never comes from Ted himself.

What I find interesting is GB FAs have no problem wanting to re-sign with the Packers and yet all other FAs somehow don't want to come to GB. You would think that the word would be out there that GB is not as terrible of a destination as the media likes to portray it as. The NFL is a pretty small fraternity. Guys played college with other players. Some of them were on the same NFL team together. They share the same agents. You would think that there would not be a hindrance when it comes to getting FAs.
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