texaspackerbacker
10 years ago

Dodd, you socialist, don't you know taxpayer dollars are for the War Machine only, so that we create more wealth redistribution to the 1%ers?

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Oh, now it starts! I applauded you earlier, Dakota, when you made a rare sensible comment, but now you're back to this shit.

As I have said MANY times, the kind of stuff Dodd is talking about absolutely is NOT mutually exclusive with military spending. I'm as much against foreign aid to just about anybody other than Israel as anybody here. However, the "War Machine" is something else. Not only is maintaining our position as far and away the strongest military power in the world the absolute top spending priority, it (the same has the infrastructure spending Dodd described and a multitude of other things) BENEFITS the economy in a greatly multiplied way - money injected/income not just through the corporate profits you hate, but job income to a broad spectrum of people who then spend it, providing more income for more people, and so on. This is economic FACT - not pie in the sky.

In addition to the potential human tragedy that could come from an ISIS or other major terrorist success, the economic dampening, as after 9/11, would be catastrophic. That much - stopping ISIS from getting strong enough to hit us at home is essential. The question mark comes when we consider whether to extend that to stopping them where THEY live - basically serving as "do-gooders"/"policing the world"/"interventionist foreign policy, whatever you want to call it. Considering the cost to us - human a lot more than financial, I'm conflicted as to whether I'm for or against that - or at what point we draw the line.
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago



Anyway, your Clausewitzian thing says "if someone else shoots first ......". How do we define that? Wait for the next 9/11 or worse? .

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



1. Ok, it's a point. But, to me, its one of geography. Americans hang out on other people's soil, they assume risks. If you attack Americans on their soil (i.e., 9/11, a embassy, a military base), then you've "shot first".

Sure, that gives the bad guys a free shot. One. But, see, none of the bad guys is big enough to stand up to unmeasured response.

2. Because that's my main point. You go to the knife, you go all in. You don't measure yourself against civilized standards. Attacking first is a waiver of the right to be treated as anything other than a barbarian.

You don't worry about what happens when the bombing stops. Because you get to decide when the bombing stops.

The Germans have never attacked again. THey're no longer barbarians. The Japanese have never attacked again. They're no longer barbarians.

Choose to be a barbarian if you want. Choose to be a barbarian and attack us? You're on death sentence until *we* decide you've become civilized enough.

Do Americans have that kind of will any more? Probably not. I can't imagine us electing politicians that have that kind of will and character. Unfortunately.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago

1. Ok, it's a point. But, to me, its one of geography. Americans hang out on other people's soil, they assume risks. If you attack Americans on their soil (i.e., 9/11, a embassy, a military base), then you've "shot first".

Sure, that gives the bad guys a free shot. One. But, see, none of the bad guys is big enough to stand up to unmeasured response.

2. Because that's my main point. You go to the knife, you go all in. You don't measure yourself against civilized standards. Attacking first is a waiver of the right to be treated as anything other than a barbarian.

You don't worry about what happens when the bombing stops. Because you get to decide when the bombing stops.

The Germans have never attacked again. THey're no longer barbarians. The Japanese have never attacked again. They're no longer barbarians.

Choose to be a barbarian if you want. Choose to be a barbarian and attack us? You're on death sentence until *we* decide you've become civilized enough.

Do Americans have that kind of will any more? Probably not. I can't imagine us electing politicians that have that kind of will and character. Unfortunately.

We've forgotten what tolerance is supposed to be. It's letting barbarians go to hell in their own way. It's not letting those barbarians define the terms of engagement when the barbarians move out of their sandbox.

Originally Posted by: Wade 




And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
texaspackerbacker
10 years ago

1. Ok, it's a point. But, to me, its one of geography. Americans hang out on other people's soil, they assume risks. If you attack Americans on their soil (i.e., 9/11, a embassy, a military base), then you've "shot first".

Sure, that gives the bad guys a free shot. One. But, see, none of the bad guys is big enough to stand up to unmeasured response.

2. Because that's my main point. You go to the knife, you go all in. You don't measure yourself against civilized standards. Attacking first is a waiver of the right to be treated as anything other than a barbarian.

You don't worry about what happens when the bombing stops. Because you get to decide when the bombing stops.

The Germans have never attacked again. THey're no longer barbarians. The Japanese have never attacked again. They're no longer barbarians.

Choose to be a barbarian if you want. Choose to be a barbarian and attack us? You're on death sentence until *we* decide you've become civilized enough.

Do Americans have that kind of will any more? Probably not. I can't imagine us electing politicians that have that kind of will and character. Unfortunately.

Originally Posted by: Wade 



Yeah, Wade, we make you the president - nope, make that the benevolent dictator, and then maybe it would work. However, your last line says it all. A politician making that kind of a threat would get absolutely crucified by the damn leftist mainstream media and the p.c. crowd who eat their shit up. And for the "unmeasured response" to survive that wrath of that p.c. crowd, the first hit by the enemy would have to be pretty damn horrendous. Maybe that's what it will come down to - we lose a city or two, but even then, do you really think we would ever basically take out the whole Muslim world?
Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.
Rockmolder
10 years ago

Yeah, Wade, we make you the president - nope, make that the benevolent dictator, and then maybe it would work. However, your last line says it all. A politician making that kind of a threat would get absolutely crucified by the damn leftist mainstream media and the p.c. crowd who eat their shit up. And for the "unmeasured response" to survive that wrath of that p.c. crowd, the first hit by the enemy would have to be pretty damn horrendous. Maybe that's what it will come down to - we lose a city or two, but even then, do you really think we would ever basically take out the whole Muslim world?

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



I very much doubt so.

Would you burn your entire house down, because you have a shoddy wall?

Or should we take out the entire Christian part of the US because of the Westboro Baptist Church?
dfosterf
10 years ago
VERY boring post, as it requires one to read, contrasted with spouting off. Since we are going to war again, and since none of us will have an actual investment in it, I don't think it would kill anyone to invest a whole 10 minutes of their life to read about the etymology of ISIS, ISIL, IS, Al-Qaeda of Iraq. the various names/guises, operations, etc.

Whoever wrote this wiki had their shit together, imo


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant 


Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago

Yeah, Wade, we make you the president - nope, make that the benevolent dictator, and then maybe it would work. However, your last line says it all. A politician making that kind of a threat would get absolutely crucified by the damn leftist mainstream media and the p.c. crowd who eat their sh*t up. And for the "unmeasured response" to survive that wrath of that p.c. crowd, the first hit by the enemy would have to be pretty damn horrendous. Maybe that's what it will come down to - we lose a city or two, but even then, do you really think we would ever basically take out the whole Muslim world?

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



1. No. But I don't imagine "the whole Muslim world" ever attacking us. I have some serious issues with even "mainstream" Muslim theology, not all of which are encapsulated under the rubric of "every Christian should". But I do not see all Muslims as ISIS/binLaden/Khomeini/et al.

2. My point is about holding states accountable. If a state supports an attack, it doesn't get to blame the "extreme elements" or "religious true believers" who pulled the trigger. I think the fear misplaced that "the whole Muslim world" will respond with world-wide escalation if the USA were to treat a particular Islamic state with what I have advocated. Because Islam is not an inherently "barbaric" religion, and Muslims are not inherently barbarians.

Theologically wrong-headed, yes. I cannot see how I can claim Jesus as my God and not consider Mohammedans wrong in their theology. But barbarians or the willing sponsors of barbarians? No.


And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
10 years ago

VERY boring post, as it requires one to read, contrasted with spouting off. Since we are going to war again, and since none of us will have an actual investment in it, I don't think it would kill anyone to invest a whole 10 minutes of their life to read about the etymology of ISIS, ISIL, IS, Al-Qaeda of Iraq. the various names/guises, operations, etc.

Whoever wrote this wiki had their sh*t together, imo


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_State_of_Iraq_and_the_Levant 


Originally Posted by: dfosterf 



From that article:

The Islamic State (IS; Arabic: الدولة الإسلامية‎ ad-Dawlah l-ʾIslāmiyyah), previously calling itself the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL; /ˈaɪsəl/) or the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS; /ˈaɪsɪs/; Arabic: الدولة الإسلامية في العراق والشام‎), and also known by the Arabic acronym Daʿesh (داعش),🅰 is an unrecognized state and a Sunni jihadist group active in Iraq and Syria in the Middle East. In its self-proclaimed status as a caliphate, it claims religious authority over all Muslims across the world[67] and aspires to bring most of the Muslim-inhabited regions of the world under its political control[68] beginning with territory in the Levant region which includes Jordan, Israel, Palestine, Lebanon, Cyprus and part of southern Turkey.[



States claim lots of things. That's part of why I am so "extreme" in my advocacy of reaction against states (or wannabe states) who sponsor attacks outside themselves. State-ness doesn't -- or, IMO, shouldn't -- ever insulate barbarians from the consequences of their actions against others. Regardless of the source they claim for their purported "authority".
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Users browsing this topic
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (3h) : Benton unsigned no more
Zero2Cool (17-Jul) : That's good analysis, yes you are getting old. It'd a blessing!
dfosterf (14-Jul) : *analysis* gettin' old
dfosterf (14-Jul) : One of the best analyisis I"ve ever watched at this time of an offseason
dfosterf (14-Jul) : Andy Herman interviewed Warren Sharp on his Pack a day podcast
packerfanoutwest (10-Jul) : Us Padres fans love it....But it'll be a Dodgers/Yankees World Series
Zero2Cool (9-Jul) : Brewers sweep Dodgers. Awesome
Mucky Tundra (6-Jul) : And James Flanigan is the grandson of Packers Super Bowl winner Jim Flanigan Sr.
Mucky Tundra (6-Jul) : Jerome Bettis and Jim Flanigans sons as well!
Zero2Cool (6-Jul) : Thomas Davis Jr is OLB, not WR. Oops.
Zero2Cool (6-Jul) : Larry Fitzgeral and Thomas Davis sons too. WR's as well.
Mucky Tundra (5-Jul) : Kaydon Finley, son of Jermichael Finley, commits to Notre Dame
dfosterf (3-Jul) : Make sure to send my props to him! A plus move!
Zero2Cool (3-Jul) : My cousin, yes.
dfosterf (3-Jul) : That was your brother the GB press gazette referenced with the red cross draft props thing, yes?
Zero2Cool (2-Jul) : Packers gonna unveil new throwback helmet in few weeks.
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : I know it's Kleiman but this stuff writes itself
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : "Make sure she signs the NDA before asking for a Happy Ending!"
Mucky Tundra (2-Jul) : @NFL_DovKleiman Powerful: Deshaun Watson is taking Shedeur Sanders 'under his wing' as a mentor to the Browns QBs
Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Dolphins get (back) Minkah Fitzpatrick in trade
Zero2Cool (30-Jun) : Steelers land Jalen Ramsey via Trade
dfosterf (26-Jun) : I think it would be great to have someone like Tom Grossi or Andy Herman on the Board of Directors so he/they could inform us
dfosterf (26-Jun) : Fair enough, WPR. Thing is, I have been a long time advocate to at least have some inkling of the dynamics within the board.
wpr (26-Jun) : 1st world owners/stockholders problems dfosterf.
Martha Careful (25-Jun) : I would have otherwise admirably served
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Also, no more provision for a write-in candidate, so Martha is off the table at least for this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : You do have to interpret the boring fine print, but all stockholders all see he is on the ballot
dfosterf (25-Jun) : It also says he is subject to another ballot in 2028. I recall nothing of this nature with Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy is on my ballot subject to me penciling him in as a no.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : I thought it used to be we voted for the whatever they called the 45, and then they voted for the seven, and then they voted for Mark Murphy
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Because I was too lazy to change my address, I haven't voted fot years until this year
dfosterf (25-Jun) : of the folks that run this team. I do not recall Mark Murphy being subject to our vote.
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Ed Policy yay or nay is on the pre-approved ballot that we always approve because we are uninformed and lazy, along with all the rest
dfosterf (25-Jun) : Weird question. Very esoteric. For stockholders. Also lengthy. Sorry. Offseason.
Zero2Cool (25-Jun) : Maybe wicked wind chill made it worse?
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : And then he signs with Cleveland in the offseason
Mucky Tundra (25-Jun) : @SharpFootball WR Diontae Johnson just admitted he refused to enter a game in 41° weather last year in Baltimore because he felt “ice cold”
Zero2Cool (24-Jun) : Yawn. Rodgers says he is "pretty sure" this be final season.
Zero2Cool (23-Jun) : PFT claims Packers are having extension talks with Zach Tom, Quay Walker.
Mucky Tundra (20-Jun) : GB-Minnesota 2004 Wild Card game popped up on my YouTube page....UGH
beast (20-Jun) : Hmm 🤔 re-signing Walker before Tom? Sounds highly questionable to me.
Mucky Tundra (19-Jun) : One person on Twitter=cannon law
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Well, to ONE person on Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : According to Tweeter
Zero2Cool (19-Jun) : Packers are working on extension for LT Walker they hope to have done before camp
dfosterf (18-Jun) : E4B landed at Andrews last night
dfosterf (18-Jun) : 101 in a 60
dfosterf (18-Jun) : FAFO
Zero2Cool (18-Jun) : one year $4m with incentives to make it up to $6m
dfosterf (18-Jun) : Or Lions
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2025 Packers Schedule
Sunday, Sep 7 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Thursday, Sep 11 @ 7:15 PM
COMMANDERS
Sunday, Sep 21 @ 12:00 PM
Browns
Sunday, Sep 28 @ 7:20 PM
Cowboys
Sunday, Oct 12 @ 3:25 PM
BENGALS
Sunday, Oct 19 @ 3:25 PM
Cardinals
Sunday, Oct 26 @ 7:20 PM
Steelers
Sunday, Nov 2 @ 12:00 PM
PANTHERS
Monday, Nov 10 @ 7:15 PM
EAGLES
Sunday, Nov 16 @ 12:00 PM
Giants
Sunday, Nov 23 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Thursday, Nov 27 @ 12:00 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 7 @ 12:00 PM
BEARS
Sunday, Dec 14 @ 3:25 PM
Broncos
Friday, Dec 19 @ 11:00 PM
Bears
Friday, Dec 26 @ 11:00 PM
RAVENS
Saturday, Jan 3 @ 11:00 PM
Vikings
Recent Topics
2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

3h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

20h / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

15-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

14-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

10-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

10-Jul / Around The NFL / Zero2Cool

6-Jul / Random Babble / Martha Careful

4-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

2-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / dfosterf

2-Jul / Fantasy Sports Talk / dfosterf

1-Jul / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

29-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

25-Jun / Around The NFL / Martha Careful

23-Jun / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

Headlines
Copyright © 2006 - 2025 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.