Why not trade away from next year to get the help we need this year?· Page 5

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

10 years ago

If we can get a group of second rounders like Eddie Lacy and Jordy Nelson, I'd be happy.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann

I'd prefer a 2nd rounder like Nick Collins and toss in a Daryn Colledge too. That kind of talent will bring the Packers to the promised land.

play2win
Senior Member Topic Starter

10 years ago

#42

When was the last time you saw a significant in-season trade in the NFL?

As I've alluded to before, Seattle has 1/7th of their salary cap tied up in two WRs who hardly see the field (who they traded for/signed as FAs, btw). Conversely, they have All Pros and cornerstones that led them to the SB which they found in later rounds (Chancellor and Sherman RD 5, Wilson 3, Unger Rd 2). Yes, they made some FA moves, and it can be effective, but generally you're paying a lot more for a FA which can end up being just as unproductive as a 3rd rounder who may come at a fraction of the cost. I'm not saying avoid FA, but to say we need to "go all in" this year and jeopardize future drafts is unnecessary and unstable for the future of the franchise. Finally, just because the Packers didn't get a big FA this offseason doesn't mean they didn't try - look at S. Jackson, we tried, and look at Saturday two years ago. Both ended up being disappointments for their respective teams, btw.

Originally Posted by: musccy

Seattle traded for Marshawn Lynch and Percy Harvin (who could have easily won SB MVP), and signed Chris Clemons, Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett, amongst others in building that team. Do you know how many sacks Clemons has over the last 3 years since they signed him?

They will line up the same guys next season, and who will really contend with that?

I'm sorry, that argument doesn't wash. I don't care how much cash they have tied up in Percy Harvin and Sidney Rice. They could cut Rice this year. Point is, their team is built for a solid 2-3 year run. This isn't a contest for how far under the cap you can be, it is a contest for who can build the best team and win. Right now, John Schneider is taking it to his mentor, Ted Thompson. We are NO WHERE close as we stand today. Follow your line of thinking, and what I hope is Ted's old line of thinking, and we may have a S drafted and developed in 2-3 years, just in time for Rodgers' second window to close...

It is time for Ted to answer.

texaspackerbacker
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#43

A "knee-jerk" reaction would be to make such a trade now - or basically anytime other than draft day, minutes before a pick where we have our sights on somebody in particular. The concept of including next year's pick(s) in a draft day trade like when we got Clay Matthews is a good one, but just to up and make a trade like that with no immediate thing in mind? Hell no, that's not a good idea.

Safety is - or should be - a major exception to the draft and develop idea. Unlike almost any other position on the field, it usually does take 2-3 years to develop. With the immediate need we have there now, the best way to handle it is sign a quality free agent - Byrd or Ward.

Expressing the Good Normal Views of Good Normal Americans.
If Anything I Say Smacks of Extremism, Please Tell Me EXACTLY What.

musccy
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#44

Originally Posted by: play2win

I never said to avoid FA, I just think you get burned by going for the big name/big money FA, and I also think you make a big mistake if you trade up too often in the draft, you need the depth of picks. It's also not as if Ted avoided FA - remember he went after S. Jackson this offseason, he signed J. Saturday last year.

As for being way under the cap, keep in mind the Packers have to sign draft picks, and they have a lot of key components - J. Jones, Sheilds, Starks, EDS, who are due money this year, and Cobb and Nelson on the horizon, so the 28 mil or whatever we're at now is a little deceptive, we have a lot of in-house spending that money needs to go towards yet.

Also keep in mind that Seattle is paying a COMBINED 2 million for their All Pro CB and their starting QB right now, that's a very unique circumstance that the Packers are not in.

play2win
Senior Member Topic Starter

10 years ago

#45

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker

Trading now is not a part of my premise. Not at all. I am talking about draft day or near the draft trading. It all depends on who they feel they are targeting, who they feel comfortable making such a move for, and their level of certainty the player is there or will be there. Maybe they would have a couple of options in the event of a straight up early trade.

All I know, is loading up now could be very beneficial for this Packers team. The idea of trading a R1 from next year, and getting that additional player we want and need in the system this season could go a very long way towards our success over the next few years, even at the expense of possibly missing out on a player next season. Seems an even wash, or better, if we can get that player in the system immediately and get him up to NFL speed, and he is able to contribute to the level we might have thought he would in making the trade.

There is risk in any move. Sometimes, greater risk in not making a move… and we have a lot of catching up to do, especially on our defense. I want this Packers team to contend for the title this coming season, and the next, and the next…

I'm not interested in pussyfooting around and possibly contending in 2-3 years. Why waste a precious year of this short window of opportunity with Aaron Rodgers at the top of his game?

Get the players we need, solid, top veteran talents via FA/trade and the best players we can possibly draft. Seattle is loaded for Bear next season. I want this 2014 Packers team to surpass them, and bring home another Lombardi Trophy. Offensively we are close. Defensively, we are not in the same area code.

musccy
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#46

I'm not interested in pussyfooting around and possibly contending in 2-3 years. Why waste a precious year of this short window of opportunity with Aaron Rodgers at the top of his game?

Get the players we need, solid, top veteran talents via FA/trade and the best players we can possibly draft. Seattle is loaded for Bear next season. I want this 2014 Packers team to surpass them, and bring home another Lombardi Trophy. Offensively we are close. Defensively, we are not in the same area code.

Originally Posted by: play2win

Keep in mind the Packers are presumably getting back Sherrod, Bulaga, Worthy, Hayward, and CM3 who all spent significant time in the training room in 2013

You have another year of Boyd, D. Jones, Daniels Boykin, J. Franklin, Bacteria, Hyde developing.

I'm not sure why there is need for panic, or the sense that the Packers have to make some big splash now. There is a lot of talent that we hardly saw in 2013 that currently works at 1265 Lombardi. What do they need? Probably some ILB upgrades, a safety, a TE, and maybe a little more depth at WR and the DLine depending on who the team retains. Some reasonable FA acquisitions and a good deep draft can help fill these voids.

nerdmann
Premier Member

10 years ago

#47

Originally Posted by: musccy

And maybe a decent trainer.

“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”

Wade
Veteran Member

10 years ago

#48

(grumble mumble grumble)

Never mind.

(mumble grumble mumble)

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)

wpr
Preferred Member

10 years ago

#49

(grumble mumble grumble)

Never mind.

(mumble grumble mumble)

Originally Posted by: Wade

well said.

play2win
Senior Member Topic Starter

10 years ago

#50

Is it "panic" to want a Championship Super Bowl Win in 2014? No. But, from a personnel standpoint, we are very far away from that on our defense.

Making it a real possibility this next season will require some doing, some decisions and actions outside of the norm we've come to know since 2006.

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Fan Shout

beast (7h) : Sounds like no serious injuries from the Saints game and Jacobs and Watson should play in the Vikings game

packerfanoutwest (12h) : both games Watson missed, Packers won

Martha Careful (14h) : I hope all of you have a Merry Christmas!

Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol

buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier

buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol

Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???

Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.

packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?

bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.

bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?

bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network

beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th

beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.

bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno

beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground

Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.

beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?

beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.

beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.

beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games

beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality

beast (23-Dec) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread

Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I literally just said it.

packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't

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