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DarkaneRules
11 years ago
pos·ture
ˈpäsCHər/
verb
gerund or present participle: posturing
1.
behave in a way that is intended to impress or mislead others.
"a masking of fear with macho posturing"

:-p
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
StoicFire
11 years ago
Just out of curiosity did/does anyone here play competitive sports?

I feel like playing offers some perspective on these types of games. I have spent a couple of years on teams with a fair amount of talent that have just not been able to win games they should. It is really really frustrating. But this isn't a video game where players have ratings and live up to them in every performance. Sometimes you just don't play up to your expectations. And when this happens, as much as it hurts, I don't think cleaning house is necessarily the answer.

From what I've heard this team was ready. They had their game faces on in spite of playing four short days after a brutally physical five quarter contest. They just laid an egg. I'm impressed by the way McCarthy handled it really, because I think he did his job in preparing the players. At the end of the day though, you can't go out there and physically make them play well. THEY have to win their match-ups. They didn't, and coach once again took the blame.

I understand that this staff and this team have a few spots that need work, but I really don't think it's as dire as the picture many are painting. Athletes lost an athletic competition (against a team that was playing really well). These things happen, and yet the core group of coaches and players we have out there are good. I think that the return of a superstar, a couple of personnel patches, and players getting rested/healthy will make a significant impact.

Athletes are never as consistent as they'd like to be, and this week they were awful, but I cant imagine that being the new norm. I think it won't be, and I also think Ted, Mike, and Dom keep their jobs.

(Sorry for all this optimism so closely following an embarrassing loss. I know it doesn't sit well after that game).
"the Quarterback can run if he wants to, but with this rocket attached to your body... who would?" -Aaron Rodgers
play2win
11 years ago
How about adding "Players Who Have Regressed" into the equation?

Marshall Newhouse
Evan Dietrich-Smith
BJ Raji
Morgan Burnett
Tramon Williams
Don Barclay
John Kuhn
AJ Hawk
MD Jennings
Jerron McMillian
Davon House
Jonathan Franklin

If I am a "draft and develop" team, and that is my philosophy, I am pretty pissed at the lack of development that I am seeing from all of these players. I would consider all of these players in the negative side of the equation. There are others who have simply amounted to little and have taken years to get there, in Brad Jones, Mike Neal, CJ Wilson. Jonathan Franklin, Josh Boyd (who has yet to see the playing field in any measurable sense) and Datone Jones were players added this last draft that we were really counting on helping this team. What happened there?

The only players I have seen developed in a positive sense are Josh Sitton, TJ Lang, Sam Shields, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Clay Matthews, Mike Daniels, Eddie Lacy, Randall Cobb and Aaron Rodgers.

So, through all of these years, Mike McCarthy has developed around 10 players into top talents? Out of 53 players? Is that the GM's fault?
StoicFire
11 years ago

Great post porky88. One of the best on the subject.

I look at the QB issues much the same way I look at all the other position groups on the team, and especially so with RB. Seems there is a mentality from our HC that "next man up" needs to be able to make all the throws, etc, yada, yada, yada. Did McCarthy adjust his game plan in Wallace's first start to take some of the heat off of him? Hell no, and he went down in a heap, exiting the game in the first series, replaced by Tolzien, a guy who was called up from the PS just 2 weeks before. Did he adjust his game plan then? Hell no. 42 passing attempts between the two scrubs. He is clearly misusing these players of limited ability and exposure to his system.

How about RB? Had McCarthy adjusted the way our RBs were used after Rodgers went down? I haven't seen it. No real platooning to keep backs fresh. No extra OL to run heavy power formations. Little to no use of the classic FB as a lead blocker. Our OL clearly were not coached up to perform well in a run heavy attack. Hell, we didn't have a run heavy attack. We didn't even use our 3rd RB. Rarely used our FB. Never used an extra lineman.

There is zero accountability from this staff. They are an arrogant lot. We, as fans, have been screaming for an upgrade to our OL coaching, with no change, same with our DC. No change. No accountability. STs have been abysmal. Strenght and Conditioning? wow.

Let's put it this way, Ted nabbed Eddie Lacy (4.0 yds/carry) in the draft - probably the best RB in the draft. He also has provided McCarthy with James Starks (6.8 yds/carry). Lacy has 208 carries to Starks' 58. This is an explosive backfield that has gone underutilized. By rights, with Rodgers having gone down these last 5 weeks, we should be leading the NFL in carries between these two rushers. Add to that, we also HAD a thrasher, change of pace RB who had already proven himself with a 100 yd game in Jonathan Franklin. Didn't get a single carry.

How many other top talents on this team have gone underutilized, or have been misused?

Lacy and Starks should have had close to 40 carries collectively in each game since Rodgers went down. Instead they get 28 v. CHI, 28 v. PHI, 16 v. NYG, 28 v. MIN, and 12 v. DET.

Our Head Coach and his staff stink. You know you have one of the best sets of RBs in the NFL. You know you have some explosive offenses that you are facing, and you want to keep them on the sidelines and chew up some clock. You know you have 3rd and 4th string QBs running your offense. Get your OL ready to pound the rock, and POUND THE ROCK! Mike McCarthy did not do that. He didn't get anywhere close. Use some heavy formations. Use your FB. Use your RBs in a rotation to keep them fresh. Mike McCarthy didn't do any of that.

I don't want to hear about 8 men in the box. They should have game planned around that with an extra blocker and just forced their will on our opponents. But, we don't do that. Is that the GM's fault?

Originally Posted by: play2win 



I don't think this is fair at all. Pass protecting and run blocking require different skill sets. You can't just flip a switch and 'coach' players to turn a weakness into a strength in one week. We're a pass first team and it's obvious why. Our running game was so good because of the fear Rodgers strikes into opposing defenses, but the fear has been gone for a month. Our backs were slicing through 6 man fronts, and it isn't just the numbers that have changed; it's the mentality as well. 6 men preparing for the pass while keeping an eye on the run versus 8 men anticipating the run. It is a huge change, and I think it's unfair to expect these guys to suddenly excel at it just because of a new game-plan or different coaching.

Did you see why we stopped running in those games? Were we getting anywhere on the ground against New York or Detroit? In NY Lacy had negative yards before contact. That is ridiculous. He literally had nowhere to go. And against Detroit we played ourselves into a hole, and had to pass to have a chance. It was the right strategy adjustment, just awful execution.

These guys played one of the worst games I've seen in a long time.
Why does that have to be all the fault of the coaches or the GM?
Could it be that they just got badly outplayed?
This is the first Rodgersless game where we got destroyed.
"the Quarterback can run if he wants to, but with this rocket attached to your body... who would?" -Aaron Rodgers
Mucky Tundra
11 years ago

If I am a "draft and develop" team, and that is my philosophy, I am pretty pissed at the lack of development that I am seeing from all of these players. I would consider all of these players in the negative side of the equation. There are others who have simply amounted to little and have taken years to get there, in Brad Jones, Mike Neal, CJ Wilson. Jonathan Franklin, Josh Boyd (who has yet to see the playing field in any measurable sense) and Datone Jones were players added this last draft that we were really counting on helping this team. What happened there?

Originally Posted by: play2win 



The thing with Jones is really odd. He's finally healthy and yet he's only brought in on the subpackage. Why? I seem to recall him being drafted as a 3 down defensive lineman who had experience in the 3-4 in college. So why not have occasionally play all three downs and see what we have?
“Nah. I like having the island. It’s pretty cool...not too many visitors”
UserPostedImage
"I’ve got it." -Aaron Rodgers
play2win
11 years ago

I don't think this is fair at all. Pass protecting and run blocking require different skill sets. You can't just flip a switch and 'coach' players to turn a weakness into a strength in one week. We're a pass first team and it's obvious why. Our running game was so good because of the fear Rodgers strikes into opposing defenses, but the fear has been gone for a month. Our backs were slicing through 6 man fronts, and it isn't just the numbers that have changed; it's the mentality as well. 6 men preparing for the pass while keeping an eye on the run versus 8 men anticipating the run. It is a huge change, and I think it's unfair to expect these guys to suddenly excel at it just because of a new game-plan or different coaching.

Did you see why we stopped running in those games? Were we getting anywhere on the ground against New York or Detroit? In NY Lacy had negative yards before contact. That is ridiculous. He literally had nowhere to go. And against Detroit we played ourselves into a hole, and had to pass to have a chance. It was the right strategy adjustment, just awful execution.

These guys played one of the worst games I've seen in a long time.
Why does that have to be all the fault of the coaches or the GM?
Could it be that they just got badly outplayed?
This is the first Rodgersless game where we got destroyed.

Originally Posted by: StoicFire 



I don't know StoicFire, and I do appreciate where you are coming from. I am generally a very positive person, and I like to keep an open mind. I've just been brought to the conclusion, through yet, another atrocious series of games and game/player mismanagement, that Mike McCarthy and his staff are not giving this team everything it needs to be successful, from a coaching, conditioning, and preparation standpoint. All 3 phases of the game, offense, defense and STs.

There were no excuses against SF. Eddie Lacy had 14 carries v. SF. Kuhn had 1. Cobb 2.

Against CIN, McCarthy actually called the running game quite well, giving both Franklin and Starks 27 carries after Lacy went down. We had 4 sacks that game, 1 INT and 2 FFs. What lost that game for us were 2 lost fumbles and 2 INTs by Rodgers, and some really shoddy STs play in kickoff coverage.

I think stopping the running game because it isn't working is pretty easy to do. I think continuing to run, when the chips may seem down takes courage and dedication, and that it shows confidence in your players and your plan. Eventually the runs break. It just boils down to having the tenacity to stick with it, and the confidence inspired in your players by doing so.

I wish I could be more confident in Mike McCarthy, but he has failed so many times in so many meaningful games and stretches. As a HC, he should have had some kind of contingency plan in place should Rodgers go down. He should have put more work in with his players to insure they could come out of a couple of these games with Ws. Has he out coached anyone? It has been a while since I have seen it. Defensively, we have been a literal laughing stock for the past 3 years. As a HC, isn't it your responsibility to see that is fixed? From a Strength & Conditioning standpoint, we have been near or at the bottom of the NFL for more than 4 years. Isn't that his responsibility to see that is addressed? Well, it has been 4 years…

Had the BS penalty on the Ross reverse not been called, we would have given up 700 yards to the Lions. 700. !!!!!!

We no longer have any semblance of a home field advantage at Lambeau Field. Where is our team's pride? What the hell? Is the HC not responsible for this? Players lined up incorrectly, 12 men on the field, illegal procedure penalties… all of that is pre snap stuff, and points to a lack of preparation.

Anyone see Rodgers throw his clipboard on the sidelines pre snap? What does that say? Players not ready. Not fully prepared.
nerdmann
11 years ago

I don't know StoicFire, and I do appreciate where you are coming from. I am generally a very positive person, and I like to keep an open mind. I've just been brought to the conclusion, through yet, another atrocious series of games and game/player mismanagement, that Mike McCarthy and his staff are not giving this team everything it needs to be successful, from a coaching, conditioning, and preparation standpoint. All 3 phases of the game, offense, defense and STs.

There were no excuses against SF. Eddie Lacy had 14 carries v. SF. Kuhn had 1. Cobb 2.

Against CIN, McCarthy actually called the running game quite well, giving both Franklin and Starks 27 carries after Lacy went down. We had 4 sacks that game, 1 INT and 2 FFs. What lost that game for us were 2 lost fumbles and 2 INTs by Rodgers, and some really shoddy STs play in kickoff coverage.

I think stopping the running game because it isn't working is pretty easy to do. I think continuing to run, when the chips may seem down takes courage and dedication, and that it shows confidence in your players and your plan. Eventually the runs break. It just boils down to having the tenacity to stick with it, and the confidence inspired in your players by doing so.

I wish I could be more confident in Mike McCarthy, but he has failed so many times in so many meaningful games and stretches. As a HC, he should have had some kind of contingency plan in place should Rodgers go down. He should have put more work in with his players to insure they could come out of a couple of these games with Ws. Has he out coached anyone? It has been a while since I have seen it. Defensively, we have been a literal laughing stock for the past 3 years. As a HC, isn't it your responsibility to see that is fixed? From a Strength & Conditioning standpoint, we have been near or at the bottom of the NFL for more than 4 years. Isn't that his responsibility to see that is addressed? Well, it has been 4 years…

Had the BS penalty on the Ross reverse not been called, we would have given up 700 yards to the Lions. 700. !!!!!!

We no longer have any semblance of a home field advantage at Lambeau Field. Where is our team's pride? What the hell? Is the HC not responsible for this? Players lined up incorrectly, 12 men on the field, illegal procedure penalties… all of that is pre snap stuff, and points to a lack of preparation.

Anyone see Rodgers throw his clipboard on the sidelines pre snap? What does that say? Players not ready. Not fully prepared.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



How many all-time record performances is Dom's squad going to give up, before he finally goes away?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
StoicFire
11 years ago

I think stopping the running game because it isn't working is pretty easy to do. I think continuing to run, when the chips may seem down takes courage and dedication, and that it shows confidence in your players and your plan. Eventually the runs break. It just boils down to having the tenacity to stick with it, and the confidence inspired in your players by doing so.

...

We no longer have any semblance of a home field advantage at Lambeau Field. Where is our team's pride? What the hell? Is the HC not responsible for this? Players lined up incorrectly, 12 men on the field, illegal procedure penalties… all of that is pre snap stuff, and points to a lack of preparation.

Anyone see Rodgers throw his clipboard on the sidelines pre snap? What does that say? Players not ready. Not fully prepared.

Originally Posted by: play2win 



I just think that McCarthy would be criticized no matter what he did because we aren't winning football games. Had he run on 1st & 10, then on 2nd & 9, and again on 3rd & 7 and punted we would all be questioning him today for his play-calling. There is no excuse he can make that is good enough for the fans if we don't win games. And that makes me feel pretty bad for the guy, who I think is a really good coach.

As for some of the individual position coaches, I really don't know that much. For all I know some of them could be in pretty rough spots when this season ends, but McCarthy should unquestionable remain head coach. I also think Capers and Slocum are fairly secure (though I know that will upset a few around here).

I completely agree on the pre-snap penalties though. They are infuriating and they are something we haven't had to worry about much since 2009, so I forgot how tough they were to deal with. Simply unacceptable if you expect to be a playoff-caliber team.

Also, I did see the Rodgers clipboard sequence. I didn't think it was a preparation issue he was responding to though. I know from experience that it hurts to watch teammates under-perform while you can't do anything about it. I think that was what we were seeing.
"the Quarterback can run if he wants to, but with this rocket attached to your body... who would?" -Aaron Rodgers
nerdmann
11 years ago

I just think that McCarthy would be criticized no matter what he did because we aren't winning football games. Had he run on 1st & 10, then on 2nd & 9, and again on 3rd & 7 and punted we would all be questioning him today for his play-calling. There is no excuse he can make that is good enough for the fans if we don't win games. And that makes me feel pretty bad for the guy, who I think is a really good coach.

As for some of the individual position coaches, I really don't know that much. For all I know some of them could be in pretty rough spots when this season ends, but McCarthy should unquestionable remain head coach. I also think Capers and Slocum are fairly secure (though I know that will upset a few around here).

I completely agree on the pre-snap penalties though. They are infuriating and they are something we haven't had to worry about much since 2009, so I forgot how tough they were to deal with. Simply unacceptable if you expect to be a playoff-caliber team.

Also, I did see the Rodgers clipboard sequence. I didn't think it was a preparation issue he was responding to though. I know from experience that it hurts to watch teammates under-perform while you can't do anything about it. I think that was what we were seeing.

Originally Posted by: StoicFire 



If Mike did something else, maybe we would win.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
DarkaneRules
11 years ago

I don't think this is fair at all. Pass protecting and run blocking require different skill sets. You can't just flip a switch and 'coach' players to turn a weakness into a strength in one week. We're a pass first team and it's obvious why. Our running game was so good because of the fear Rodgers strikes into opposing defenses, but the fear has been gone for a month. Our backs were slicing through 6 man fronts, and it isn't just the numbers that have changed; it's the mentality as well. 6 men preparing for the pass while keeping an eye on the run versus 8 men anticipating the run. It is a huge change, and I think it's unfair to expect these guys to suddenly excel at it just because of a new game-plan or different coaching.

Did you see why we stopped running in those games? Were we getting anywhere on the ground against New York or Detroit? In NY Lacy had negative yards before contact. That is ridiculous. He literally had nowhere to go. And against Detroit we played ourselves into a hole, and had to pass to have a chance. It was the right strategy adjustment, just awful execution.

These guys played one of the worst games I've seen in a long time.
Why does that have to be all the fault of the coaches or the GM?
Could it be that they just got badly outplayed?
This is the first Rodgersless game where we got destroyed.

Originally Posted by: StoicFire 



Someone that puts what I am thinking into words. Bless you! =d>
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
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