DoddPower
11 years ago
Hawks a really good player to have on your team. He's incredibly available, which means a lot in todays NFL. He's definitely not elite, but a team can win with him, as the Packers have shown. I'm fine with Hawk, but it would be nice if the Packers could get a very good to elite player to play beside him.

He isn't the best #5 overall pick ever, but it could have easily been much, much, worse. Things don't always work out perfectly.
PackFanWithTwins
11 years ago
People really need to get past the number he was picked at, and expecting him to be something he never was expected to be. He was not drafted to be Ray Lewis, or Urlacher. That was Nick Barnett. Hawk was the most surefire pick, never expected to have the greatest upside, but never expected to have a huge downside either. And that is exactly what he has been.

Barnett, Bishop, and Jones have been the Mike backers for the Packers, that is the position that is suppose to make the plays. Hawk has been the will. His job is more to help the mike make plays. He is suppose to prevent the cutback to the weak side if the RB get past the dline. He takes on lead blockers, he blitzes to occupy blockers so the mike can get a free shot on the QB.

His only real issue was that he got to big for a while, which cost him movement and speed. He has dropped about 10 lbs and has gained some of that back. His coverage problems are overblown as well. When I re-watch games, he is normally right on his man. Most of the time, in order to have close coverage he would be flagged for PI. And he normally makes the tackle.

If you look at his actual position he is top 2 or 3 with the likes of Bowman.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
DoddPower
11 years ago

If you look at his actual position he is top 2 or 3 with the likes of Bowman.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



I agree with most of your post, but not this one. Bowman is a phenomenal player who not only routinely makes impact plays, but also puts up decent stats. IMO, he plays much faster, too. He was a great pick for the 91st player picked in 2010.
texaspackerbacker
11 years ago

People really need to get past the number he was picked at, and expecting him to be something he never was expected to be. He was not drafted to be Ray Lewis, or Urlacher. That was Nick Barnett. Hawk was the most surefire pick, never expected to have the greatest upside, but never expected to have a huge downside either. And that is exactly what he has been.

Barnett, Bishop, and Jones have been the Mike backers for the Packers, that is the position that is suppose to make the plays. Hawk has been the will. His job is more to help the mike make plays. He is suppose to prevent the cutback to the weak side if the RB get past the dline. He takes on lead blockers, he blitzes to occupy blockers so the mike can get a free shot on the QB.

His only real issue was that he got to big for a while, which cost him movement and speed. He has dropped about 10 lbs and has gained some of that back. His coverage problems are overblown as well. When I re-watch games, he is normally right on his man. Most of the time, in order to have close coverage he would be flagged for PI. And he normally makes the tackle.

If you look at his actual position he is top 2 or 3 with the likes of Bowman.

Originally Posted by: PackFanWithTwins 



If somebody has sure-thing knowledge of the Capers D, or what came before it for that matter, I'd yield to that, but ...... as far as I know, there is no differentiation between the two ILB positions as the Packers play them. Also, "Mike" means starting with M - Middle. "Will" means starting with W - Wing or Wide. It's kind of hazy this many years later, but wasn't the plan when Hawk was drafted for Nick Barnett to be bumped from Middle Linebacker to Outside Linebacker - making room for Hawk to be the Middle Linebacker? I would suggest that indeed he WAS drafted to be something resembling Ray Lewis or Urlacher. I would further suggest AGAIN that it is extremely appropriate to take into consideration the high position in the draft when judging whether Hawk has been a good thing or a bad thing for the Packers.

And most of all, I say AGAIN, the WORST thing about A.J. Hawk IMO is that he has lasted so long, preventing the Packers from filling that spot with somebody a whole lot better - as most of the good and a lot of the bad teams in the league have playing MLB or ILB.


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Gaycandybacon
11 years ago

Hawks a really good player to have on your team. He's incredibly available, which means a lot in todays NFL. He's definitely not elite, but a team can win with him, as the Packers have shown. I'm fine with Hawk, but it would be nice if the Packers could get a very good to elite player to play beside him.

He isn't the best #5 overall pick ever, but it could have easily been much, much, worse. Things don't always work out perfectly.

Originally Posted by: DoddPower 



Yes this. There's millions of Busts in the draft each year, it doesn't matter where you're drafted unless you're pretty much relying on them to completely change your team like a Quarterback.

If you can stay active every game and tackle, you're a good Linebacker to me.
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member
11 years ago

If somebody has sure-thing knowledge of the Capers D, or what came before it for that matter, I'd yield to that, but ...... as far as I know, there is no differentiation between the two ILB positions as the Packers play them. Also, "Mike" means starting with M - Middle. "Will" means starting with W - Wing or Wide. It's kind of hazy this many years later, but wasn't the plan when Hawk was drafted for Nick Barnett to be bumped from Middle Linebacker to Outside Linebacker - making room for Hawk to be the Middle Linebacker? I would suggest that indeed he WAS drafted to be something resembling Ray Lewis or Urlacher. I would further suggest AGAIN that it is extremely appropriate to take into consideration the high position in the draft when judging whether Hawk has been a good thing or a bad thing for the Packers.

And most of all, I say AGAIN, the WORST thing about A.J. Hawk IMO is that he has lasted so long, preventing the Packers from filling that spot with somebody a whole lot better - as most of the good and a lot of the bad teams in the league have playing MLB or ILB.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 



W means Weak side LB
S strong
M Middle

In a 4 LB set up you can have the 2nd Middle LB take the role of the Will LB. And who says GB has 4 LB out there all the time? That is only the base package. Last week they were in nickle and dime almost all the game. In the nickle they had 2 LB and the dime only 1.
UserPostedImage
PackFanWithTwins
11 years ago

If somebody has sure-thing knowledge of the Capers D, or what came before it for that matter, I'd yield to that, but ...... as far as I know, there is no differentiation between the two ILB positions as the Packers play them. Also, "Mike" means starting with M - Middle. "Will" means starting with W - Wing or Wide. It's kind of hazy this many years later, but wasn't the plan when Hawk was drafted for Nick Barnett to be bumped from Middle Linebacker to Outside Linebacker - making room for Hawk to be the Middle Linebacker? I would suggest that indeed he WAS drafted to be something resembling Ray Lewis or Urlacher. I would further suggest AGAIN that it is extremely appropriate to take into consideration the high position in the draft when judging whether Hawk has been a good thing or a bad thing for the Packers.

And most of all, I say AGAIN, the WORST thing about A.J. Hawk IMO is that he has lasted so long, preventing the Packers from filling that spot with somebody a whole lot better - as most of the good and a lot of the bad teams in the league have playing MLB or ILB.

Originally Posted by: texaspackerbacker 


There is a difference in the positions. Why do you think, they switch sides depending on the offensive formation. Hawk will always line up on the weak side of the offensive formation, Jones (or whoever) on the front/strong side. Some say the same thing that we don't have a FS and SS, that they are the same and that is also incorrect. While at times they may change up. While we may see Burnett deep, he most often playing SS.

No idea of the team has planned on him moving Barnett out. But if they had, I expect they would have. Hawk was fully capable as demonstrated when Barnett went out in 08' and Hawk moved inside without a problem.

Perhaps, the reason Hawk has lasted is because nobody can beat him out. If there was a weakness at the position, Ted would certainly address it.

The problem is not Hawk, the problem is fans that expected him to be what he was never suppose to be.
The world needs ditch diggers too Danny!!!
steveishere
11 years ago
I'm not as down on Hawk as some and I agree that he has kept his job because nobody has showed up and been better than him so he's deserved it.

He does have some faults that make him an average player IMO. Regardless of his job responsibilities he doesn't make all of the plays that are out there for him to make like tackling guys for short gains near the line or making decisive tackles in space. He's better in coverage than he gets credit for. He is not good at all at taking on blocks, he gets moved out of plays way too easily when another team gets a hat on him. Taking on a block IMO doesn't just mean running up there and getting blocked out of the play, he doesn't often get past the blocker or take on the blocker early enough to re-route the runner he just gets blocked and that's it. He's been a better pass rusher it seems the last couple years but he still doesn't have the ability Bishop had to slip past a block at the line and get after the QB.

I think the thing that bugs most people about him is he hit his ceiling pretty early (which wasn't that high) and hasn't really shown any improvement over the years and has even had years where he regressed. He's definitely a guy you can win with if he's on your team but if your whole D was made up of AJ Hawks it wouldn't be very good.
Porforis
11 years ago

He's definitely a guy you can win with if he's on your team but if your whole D was made up of AJ Hawks it wouldn't be very good.

Originally Posted by: steveishere 



Would an entire defense made up of any single NFL player be any good at all?
steveishere
11 years ago

Would an entire defense made up of any single NFL player be any good at all?

Originally Posted by: Porforis 



Come on now you know what I was saying. I'm obviously talking about players with the same ability level not the same build. Don't be dense.
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