wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
12 years ago
I see Fracois being the new ILB. but it won't mean much. They are going to fill that position with DBs, LBers and whatever Capers wants to in order to confuse the offense.

source 


Who is up next? That is the burning question facing the Packers at the inside linebacker position. Right now the Packers haven’t made a move, and even though D.J. Smith is out for the season, there is no real answer for who is going to take his place on the roster (once he goes to IR) or in the lineup. Now this is two different questions, so let’s take a moment to focus on the one most pressing for this weekend….who is going to be playing on the field?

Right now reports are that coach McCarthy is playing coy with the media about this particular question. "We’ll let you see that on Sunday" tends to be the main quote coming out about what is going to be done. That said, there are a few possibilities of who is the next man up. Let’s go through some of the options.

Brad Jones. Jones is a third year man who has just moved to the inside linebacker spot this offseason. He played well in spot duty against the Texans once D.J. Smith came out. He also played well for the injured Aaron Kampan during his 2009 rookie campaign. Traditionally Jones has been pretty good in coverage and very good against the run. He’s also the guy who has the most on the field time than all the replacements. Right now he’s probably the lead dog for the starting spot.

Robert Francois. There’s a very odd Coen brother film called The Man Who Wasn’t There, basically about a guy who gets over his head but consistently gets out of trouble because people just forget he’s around. This gist of this movie fits with Francois for me. Francois has the most experience at the position than all of the replacements. When he’s been called on he’s done pretty well (last year he was the starter for a two game stretch while A.J. Hawk recovered from injury). He’s also a guy that so many of us just forget about because he’s primarily been a special teams contributor. The good news is that when he was in the lineup he was stronger in pass coverage than Smith, although he did not have quite as physical of play as Smith. Right now that could be good with Hawk playing like a madman, but still allowing the big play over the middle once in a while.

Jamari Lattimore. Lattimore is similar to Jones because he is another OLB making the transition to ILB. The main difference though is that Lattimore has mainly done special teams work rather than on the field experience with the defense. That said, he may have had the best training camp and preseason out of the entire linebacker unit and has performed well when he’s had the chance. The problem is that he hasn’t had the chance so far this season. Lattimore sneaking into the lineup just may be that pleasant surprise that energizes the defense.

Terrell Manning. Manning is a guy who captures the imagination of many Packer fans. He was a relatively low round pick, but the Packers did trade up to get him and he was considered a bit of a steal by many draft experts. Then he completely disappeared in camp. Later this was explained by his suffering a concussion and a very rare disease, but still the damage was done for his ability to contribute this season. Right now he may be too far behind to get some real on the field time and contribute….but then again you never know. I would still bet more on next year for Manning than this year.

Clay Matthews. You read that right. I’m not talking about a permanent move mind you, rather just expect an increase in the amount of times you see the Claymaker move to the inside….especially on passing downs. One of the most successful packages this year has been the new look "Psycho" package with Jerel Worthy the down lineman and Nick Perry, Matthews, and Dezman Moses lining up to attack the passer. This package can even continue to be effective while Perry heals up with so many guys with OLB experience ready to come in and contribute. The real secret to this sort of use of Matthews is going to be the play of Erik Walden. If Walden can continue to play as well as he has this year then it shouldn’t be a problem. If Walden’s play drops off since Perry isn’t pushing him anymore than we could be in for a severe drop off in our pass rush no matter where Matthews lines up.

Charles Woodson. On Sunday night you heard lots about how Woodson was being used like an outside linebacker. It’s true, Woodson’s aggressive play and tackling ability does give the Packers the advantage of using him in this capacity. With so many of our current ILB’s a bit raw at the position mixed with the rise of so many young secondary personnel (Casey Hayward, Sam Shields, Davon House, Jerron McMillian, etc.) the Packers could slide Woodson inside to even more of a LB role to give a hybrid dime look. Imagine a 3-3-5 look with Woodson playing about where Smith would line up. Or on long downs it could be a 2-3-6. These formations could work with the talent the Packers have and still allow the team to effectively stuff the run.

The good news about all of this is that the Packers have options to fill in that last ILB spot. The bad news is that so many of the more creative options are also tied into other injuries (e.g. the Perry injury, the Shields injury, and the House injury). The Packers have suffered big blows before and found players who have stepped up and made a name for themselves. This is what saw the rise of Desmond Bishop and D.J. Smith in the first place. Hopefully Jones, Francois, or Lattimore can do the same. If not then I’m happy we have a mad scientist like Dom Capers back there to cook something up to cover this otherwise gaping hole in the defense.


UserPostedImage
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
12 years ago
a second question to consider is- who won't fill the position?

Lattimore and Manning will see very few snaps at ILB unless there is another injury.
UserPostedImage
Gaycandybacon
12 years ago
I like Brad Jones. The guy can cover the middle of the field with his speed, and can tackle very well. OLB size playing MLB. We've been looking for that size and speed since Bishop. He'll have an easier time rushing the passer, shooting through gaps and taking on guards and backs. Imo Smith can be a shady tackler, and doesn't have that toughness. So Jones could prove more suitable for the posistion.

I haven't seen much from the other guys.. I like Francois as much as everyone else, so he could push for the job during the season if Jones plays bad.

Manning has some pass rush ablity, but other parts of his game remains to be seen.

Lattimore, I don't know what the coaches saw. He's ahead of Francois on the depth chart, and I thought he would be a OLB.

I think Manning will never fill in, at least this year. Unless we keep getting hit with injurys.
doddpower
12 years ago
I still have high hopes for Manning. I understand he may not be very useful this season, but in the long run, I think he can definitely make a push for a starting MLB position. I could see it taking a few years like it did for Bishop, though.
beast
12 years ago

I find this question a bit odd ... because my first response is, "The guy who replaced him in the last game, will be the same guy the replaced him in future games, unless he's doing a bad job..."

Jones replaced him last game, and I thought he did pretty well there and I think that's Jones natural position in the 3-4 defense.

Also I keep hearing about Francois coverage being so good and better than Smith's coverage last year... I don't believe that. Last year Francois was surprisingly very good to great in zone coverage.... but in man coverage the QB targeted him, throwing the the guy he was suppose to be covering over and over again (while he and Smith were both in the game). And when Smith has been getting burned it's mainly when he's been asked to play man coverage.

So my opinion is ( ">" means "greater than" )
Francois in zone coverage > Smith coverage > Francois in man coverage
UserPostedImage
doddpower
12 years ago

I find this question a bit odd ... because my first response is, "The guy who replaced him in the last game, will be the same guy the replaced him in future games, unless he's doing a bad job..."

Jones replaced him last game, and I thought he did pretty well there and I think that's Jones natural position in the 3-4 defense.

Also I keep hearing about Francois coverage being so good and better than Smith's coverage last year... I don't believe that. Last year Francois was surprisingly very good to great in zone coverage.... but in man coverage the QB targeted him, throwing the the guy he was suppose to be covering over and over again (while he and Smith were both in the game). And when Smith has been getting burned it's mainly when he's been asked to play man coverage.

So my opinion is ( ">" means "greater than" )
Francois in zone coverage > Smith coverage > Francois in man coverage

Originally Posted by: beast 




I don't like seeing the Packer's MLB's in man coverage, period. Hawk, Bishop, Smith, et al., they are all pretty bad in man coverage, mostly because they're slow. Especially Bishop and Smith. I know it's unavoidable at times, but hopefully it can be minimized.

It's tough to evaluate Froncois because he has had minimal playing time. It would be expected that he would improve in all areas of his game as he got more playing time, including man coverage. At least he has a little more speed to make up for some mistakes. Naturally, though, there's no guarantee that he actually would improve, though.
Pack93z
12 years ago
According to Pro Football Focus, DJ Smith's numbers ranked him very highly in coverage. Like top 10 for Backers. Now, we can discuss the validity of their judgement stats.. but I think there is some value in it as they break down every play from every team and tally it in the same fashion.

Personally, what I liked the best with Smith in the middle is the YAC yardage was minimal.. can we expect any Backer to stick with say a Sproles?

Another topic with Smith and Hawk combo.. is that the Tight ends were not exploiting us as in the past.

Hopefully, that remains the case moving forward.  ILB Coverage Week 6.JPG You have insufficient rights to see the content.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
12 years ago
Added the stats to the last posts.. seems I was a little off.. top 15. 🤔
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
doddpower
12 years ago

Personally, what I liked the best with Smith in the middle is the YAC yardage was minimal.. can we expect any Backer to stick with say a Sproles?

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



No, which is why I hate to see Dom consistently ask Hawk et al. to do so. It doesn't seem like a call that is putting the players in the best position to make plays. Same with Matt Forte, and several other running backs (and tight ends, too).

Gaycandybacon
12 years ago

According to Pro Football Focus, DJ Smith's numbers ranked him very highly in coverage. Like top 10 for Backers. Now, we can discuss the validity of their judgement stats.. but I think there is some value in it as they break down every play from every team and tally it in the same fashion.

Personally, what I liked the best with Smith in the middle is the YAC yardage was minimal.. can we expect any Backer to stick with say a Sproles?

Another topic with Smith and Hawk combo.. is that the Tight ends were not exploiting us as in the past.

Hopefully, that remains the case moving forward.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



Don't forget Woodson. He covers the TE more now that he's a SS
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Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Oh I know about Jacobs, I just couldn't pass up an opportunity to mimic Zero lol
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : Jacobs was just sat down, Watson re-injured that knee that kept him out 1 game earlier
buckeyepackfan (24-Dec) : I needed .14 that's. .14 points for the whole 4th quarter to win and go to the SB. Lol
Mucky Tundra (24-Dec) : Jacobs gonna be OK???
Zero2Cool (24-Dec) : Watson gonna be OK???
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : Inactives tonight for the Pack: Alexander- knee Bullard - ankle Williams - quad Walker -ankle Monk Heath
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : No Jaire, but hopefully the front 7 destroys the line of scrimmage & forces Rattler into a few passes to McKinney.
packerfanoutwest (24-Dec) : minny could be #1 seed and the Lions #5 seed
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : We'd have same Division and Conference records. Strength of schedule we edge them
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I just checked. What tie breaker?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes its possible but unlikely. If we do get the 5th, we face the NFCS winner
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ahh, ok.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : yes due to tie breaker
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I mean, unlikely, yes, but mathematically, 5th is possible by what I'm reading.
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : If Vikings lose out, Packers win out, Packers get 5th, right?
bboystyle (23-Dec) : Minny isnt going to lose out so 5th seed is out of the equation. We are playing for the 6th or 7th seed which makes no difference
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, the ad revenue goes to the broadcast company but they gotta pay to air the game on their channel/network
beast (23-Dec) : If we win tonight the game is still relative in terms of 5th, 6th or 7th seed... win and it's 5th or 6th, lose and it's 6th or 7th
beast (23-Dec) : Mucky, I thought the ad revenue went to the broadcasting companies or the NFL, at least not directly
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think the revenue share is moot, isn't it? That's the CBA an Salary Cap handling that.
bboystyle (23-Dec) : i mean game becomes irrelevant if we win tonight. Just a game where we are trying to play spoilers to Vikings chance at the #1 seed
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : beast, I would guess ad revenue from more eyes watching tv
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I would think it would hurt the home team because people would have to cancel last minute maybe? i dunno
beast (23-Dec) : I agree that it's BS for fans planning on going to the game. But how does it bring in more money? I'm guessing indirectly?
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : bs on flexing the game....they do it for the $$league$$, not the hometown fans
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (23-Dec) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (23-Dec) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (23-Dec) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (23-Dec) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (23-Dec) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (23-Dec) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (23-Dec) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (23-Dec) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (23-Dec) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
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