nerdmann
12 years ago

We did play a lot of man as well we aren't just playing zone and Pack93z is dead on you have to play some zones. The Bears are mostly zone and they have holes that can be exploited by good QB's but they make you drive the full length and you can put up yards but zone becomes difficult to pass on when it's in the red zone. If you have everyone in man coverage and one guy slips up, nobody will be looking at the ball and that's going to be a big play.

I personally liked the 2 man we played against the bears. We played trail technique 2 safeties deep to help out the CB's in man coverage. If your LB's can play zone but pass the WR/TE up the field in tight coverage to the safeties that's going to be your best bet. In dime or nickle your coverage over the middle of the field should be able to cover that well. Sometimes a QB is going to thread a needle like Brees did in a few cases and you just have to tip your hat.

An offense like the Saints you need to be realistic about though. You are not going to simply shut them out. They will put up minimum 24 points IMO unless you really have long drives. You have to eliminate the big plays . The one on shields on the miscommunication was unacceptable. Other than that we forced a lot of FG's and played them MUCH better than we did last year. We were more on par with 2010. In 2010 against elite offenses we usually gave up 25 points or so.

In reality we should not have gave up 32 points to an offense like the 49ers, they are a solid football team but that was easily the worst showing this year when you take into context the style of football team that they are.

We got to find a way to get our middle zones to cover the WR up the field a little further and not just allow them to walk past and sit in the opening.

Originally Posted by: Rios39 



Agreed, Brees is a Dan Marino type passer. He's gonna complete some throws against you.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
wpr
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12 years ago
I realize that zone has to be played at least some of the time. I also realize that all 8 backers (LB and DB) are not going to be in man to man coverage on any play. I am not even sure it is possible unless you are double covering almost everyone. But there is something to be said for the Corner who goes mono e mono with the Receiver and shuts him down. I am not worried about not being able to get the Int. If the Corner is covering the receiver like a wet blanket most of the time the ball is not going to be thrown that direction. Of course there will be plays like the ball Jones caught one handed without even seeing it. LOVED IT! Other WR will do the same. But out of 10 balls thrown like that 7 or 8 will be incomplete.

And certainly there is risk with m2m coverage if the defender falls or bites on the fake or something like that. There is risk getting out of bed in the morning. The advantage is being more aggressive. Better able to communicate. Less holes for the receiver to run to and sit. More able to shake up the WR. Someone said the other day the reason they are playing WR is they don't like to be hit. While that is a bit of an exaggeration we have seen many times receivers have an off day when the corner is a little tighter on the coverage. HoF WR Jerry Rice had one of his worst games when GB got tough with him in the playoffs. Was that 93 or 94?
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Rios39
12 years ago

I realize that zone has to be played at least some of the time. I also realize that all 8 backers (LB and DB) are not going to be in man to man coverage on any play. I am not even sure it is possible unless you are double covering almost everyone. But there is something to be said for the Corner who goes mono e mono with the Receiver and shuts him down. I am not worried about not being able to get the Int. If the Corner is covering the receiver like a wet blanket most of the time the ball is not going to be thrown that direction. Of course there will be plays like the ball Jones caught one handed without even seeing it. LOVED IT! Other WR will do the same. But out of 10 balls thrown like that 7 or 8 will be incomplete.

And certainly there is risk with m2m coverage if the defender falls or bites on the fake or something like that. There is risk getting out of bed in the morning. The advantage is being more aggressive. Better able to communicate. Less holes for the receiver to run to and sit. More able to shake up the WR. Someone said the other day the reason they are playing WR is they don't like to be hit. While that is a bit of an exaggeration we have seen many times receivers have an off day when the corner is a little tighter on the coverage. HoF WR Jerry Rice had one of his worst games when GB got tough with him in the playoffs. Was that 93 or 94?

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Agree with everything you said. And then you have situations where you can play slightly off like tramon does and if they run a short out route you have the option to cut that off in a zone but if the WR runs up the field I'd like to see the CB not just let him go, he should carry him up the field.

The problem becomes when you have a guy like Colston in the slot, he will run straight down the field. That's where you need a nickle or dime out there and have one of Woodson, Hayward or another safety running with him cause if he's one on one with a LB that's going to be a tough match up.

So what I'm mostly saying is I don't like flat footed zones where they just stand and watch a receiver run by them even though they know there is a large void in the seam behind them.


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wpr
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12 years ago

Agree with everything you said.

Originally Posted by: Rios39 



we can stop there. 👍

maybe I can use that in my signature. [grin1]
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wpr
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12 years ago

Agree with everything you said. And then you have situations where you can play slightly off like tramon does and if they run a short out route you have the option to cut that off in a zone but if the WR runs up the field I'd like to see the CB not just let him go, he should carry him up the field.

The problem becomes when you have a guy like Colston in the slot, he will run straight down the field. That's where you need a nickle or dime out there and have one of Woodson, Hayward or another safety running with him cause if he's one on one with a LB that's going to be a tough match up.

So what I'm mostly saying is I don't like flat footed zones where they just stand and watch a receiver run by them even though they know there is a large void in the seam behind them.

Originally Posted by: Rios39 



you are right the flat footed zone are the worst.
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porky88
12 years ago

An offense like the Saints you need to be realistic about though. You are not going to simply shut them out. They will put up minimum 24 points IMO unless you really have long drives. You have to eliminate the big plays . The one on shields on the miscommunication was unacceptable. Other than that we forced a lot of FG's and played them MUCH better than we did last year. We were more on par with 2010. In 2010 against elite offenses we usually gave up 25 points or so.

Originally Posted by: Rios39 


There were strides made in the run defense, but very little pertaining to the pass defense. They allowed 446 yards passing, which is more than last year. The two most disconcerting statistics were allowing Drew Brees to complete 65% of his passes, despite attempting over 50 passes. He also averaged eight yards per completion. The wide receivers weren’t necessarily breaking tackles, either. They were wide open. The Saints are without Sean Payton, who’s the best play caller in football. Yet, Brees still racked up season-high totals across the board. I saw a repeat of 2011 last year, and let’s face it, a phantom holding call kept New Orleans from the 30-point mark.

The only two pure cover two defenses are Chicago and Minnesota, so most defenses are adjusting. Everyone runs variations and the Packers do as well. However, they took a passive approach to defending New Orleans on Sunday. They were waiting for Drew Brees to make a mistake. They did the same thing a year ago. It didn’t happen then and it didn‘t happen now. That’s the frustration, in my opinion. They didn’t learn from previous mistakes.
Akexpat
12 years ago
all things being equal I agree with selecting the time and place to use both types of D and that it has a lot to do with match ups and your D squad vs the offense they are facing. That being said the only reason I tend to prefer m2m with our current D is I see a tendency for miss-communication between our DBs and Safeties (ie the blown coverage by Shields last weekend). Zone requires great communication and familiarity among the D to know where the players are and when to hand off between the layers and zones in the D.

from my amateur coaching couch some 8 time zones away from the action, the last 3 weekends we have played tight m2m but have still had problems with assignments when it came to zone.


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Zero2Cool
12 years ago

I saw a repeat of 2011 last year, and let’s face it, a phantom holding call kept New Orleans from the 30-point mark.

Originally Posted by: porky88 



What phantom holding call are you talking about?


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wpr
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12 years ago

What phantom holding call are you talking about?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I assume it was the last FG attempt.
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PackFanWithTwins
12 years ago

Yet, Brees still racked up season-high totals across the board. I saw a repeat of 2011 last year, and let’s face it, a phantom holding call kept New Orleans from the 30-point mark.

Originally Posted by: porky88 



Don't forget about the blown trap that wasn't over turned that extended a drive, the push off that allowed a TD that wasn't called, and the fumble that wasn't called correct.

Those combined for 119 yards passing for Brees and a TD and 10 points total.
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Mucky Tundra (11-Feb) : Yeah where did it go?
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Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Funny observation I've heard: Carson Wentz was on the sideline for both Eagles Super Bowl wins w/guys supposed to be his back up winning
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles had 15th and 10th selections, moved to 13 and 9 to get Davis and Carter back to back
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Obviously he was a huge risk but getting a top 5 talent on the dline in the mid 20s is fortuitous
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Jalen Carter falling into their lap certainly helps
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : It's not like Philly has had low draft picks, but has managed to get themselves a top notch pass rush. We spend so much draft capital of D
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : another crap halftime show
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think it is over, but then I think of Atlanta and want Philly to go in with the same intensity in the second half
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