Zero2Cool
12 years ago
What are zone defense and man defense? What are your thoughts as to why one is better than the other. And do the Packers have the personnel to deploy your preference?

Zone coverage schemes require the linebackers and defensive backs to work together to cover certain areas of the field, making it difficult for the opposing quarterback to complete passes. Zone defenses will generally require linebackers to cover the short and midrange area in the middle of the field, in front of the safeties. In the case where one or two linebackers blitz, the remaining linebacker(s) expands his zone to cover the zone responsibilities of the vacating linebacker(s). Often, blitzing will leave larger holes in the pass defense, but it is a gamble the defensive coordinator wants to make to pressure the quarterback into a poor decision and hopefully an interception or at least an incompletion.

Wiki wrote:



Man-to-man defense is a type of defensive tactic used in American football, association football, and basketball in which each player is assigned to defend and follow the movements of a single player on offense. Often, a player guards his counterpart (e.g. center guarding center), but a player may be assigned to guard a different position. The strategy is not rigid however, and a player might switch assignment if needed, or leave his own assignment for a moment to double team an offensive player.

The alternative to man-to-man defense is zone defense, in which the defender is assigned a specific area of the floor, and then guards whatever offensive player enters his area.

The advantage of the man-to-man defense is that it is more aggressive than the zone defense. It also allows a team's best defender to stay on a player who has to be guarded at all times. The disadvantage is that it allows the offensive team to run screens more effectively, and it leaves weaker or slower defenders more exposed. In a man-to-man defense, those defenders are generally teammates staying close to their own assigned offensive player, and thus are often not in good position to offer help should a weaker defender be eluded by the offensive player he is trying to guard.

Wiki wrote:


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Pack93z
12 years ago
One could write a book upon the subject in general terms and still not get it right as to which is better. It simply is a combination of match ups and execution in determining which is better. What is the objective of the scheme also has a bearing.

Personally, I prefer a man coverage to a zone coverage if you have the talent to hang with the receivers and tackle well. There are inherited weaknesses that come along with man coverage, from rubs (picks as you will) in routes to exposing the linebackers to locking up man to man with backs and Tightends. Also, the most common man coverage is with a two deep safety look to protect the overs.. however most of these require the safeties to hedge to the edges or hashs, thus creating a natural seam over the deep middle. I am not a fan of straight man coverage where you pull the safeties up to cover and leave the back patrolled by one or no deep help.

Additionally, there is little to no exchanges in coverage with man, it is a simpler defense to understand and be assignment sure in terms of the mental game. With the rubs, you may switch receivers, but that is rare in today's game.

Zone is what it is.. it is designed to give coverage to more areas and tries to protect the players by having them play spaces and read what is in front of them.. it can be very effective coupled with a decent to strong pass rush. However with youth it can also be exposed a ton with guys sneaking out of there zones.. especially if they try and play the QB's eyes. If played properly, a good QB will still find the holes, it is up to the defense to disguise or mix those zones up enough to force the QB to interpret the coverage each and every drop back. There is the catch.. with inexperience it will lead to miscues in coverage and leave large areas wide open.. and good combination of QB and WR's will pick these clean.

Zone will also provide more opportunity for interceptions naturally by giving angles on throws.. Man relies more on the talent of the cover man to make a play.

Summary.. there is no right answer, no absolutes. A Talented and well ran offense will find the weaknesses of any defense given enough time to find it.

Personally, I would rather have the QB make a split decision within his reads to find a receiver that has won his match up in man coverage than reading a zone and finding the hole. One is more predictive than the other if the coverage is worth a damn. I would challenge the QB to read the developing play as it is breaking.
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zombieslayer
12 years ago
I'm not the resident expert in this. This is just based off my experience watching football games.

Elite QBs - 🇦🇷, Brees, Brady, P Manning, etc., tend to tear apart zone Ds. Zone Ds work great against lesser QBs.
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wpr
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12 years ago
If I have to state a preference I prefer a secondary that can play either equally well and excel at both of them.

That said I prefer m2m coverage as it seems more aggressive. There have been plenty of games where GB came up and hit the WR as he was coming off the line. He got the receiver out of rhythm and then stuck with him all over the field. End results- Victory GB.

Zone just seems to be more of a sitting back and waiting for something bad to happen. There always seems to be a lack of communication between the defenders as players move from area of the zone to another. Having a receiver come through one part of a zone and take the defenders with him leaves the area wide open when a second receiver comes through after him. It is frustrating to watch a defender break off coverage and slid back to his perch while the receiver he was just covering runs free.

Since zone is more passiveness as ZS points out the elite QBs can find the holes in a zone and there are usually plenty of them.


In either case if you have a monster pass run that is consistently in the face of the QB after 1.5 to 2 seconds both coverages will work.
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PackFanWithTwins
12 years ago
If I had to pick, I would choose Man coverage. It is more aggressive, and removes miscommunication from the secondary.

In reality no team plays pure Man coverage. There are always some zone aspects and coverage mixed in. A FS deep is in zone while CB play man underneith. It allows the CB to play trail coverage knowing help will be there or should be there. If TE and RB stay in to block, the guys who were responsible for them, if they don't blitz drop into a zone, also.

I really miss, jamming the WR off the line. We use to not be afraid to match up with 5 wides and press all of them in coverage, not let them get off the line and give the rush a little extra time to get to the QB. I would live to see more of that again.
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Zero2Cool
12 years ago
I like bump and run which I think is man to man, right? I like this because receivers play offense because they hate getting hit, otherwise they'd be on defense. I want the WR to have to adjust to the CB, not the CB waiting to react to the route of the WR. I think with the rules in today's game, its a issue waiting to happen. You got five yards to slam the hell out of that WR and make him run a different route than he wants to. This really disrupts a quarterback to wide receiver timing. I think zone coverage is really easy to be especially if you have a quarterback with a powerful arm.
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wpr
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12 years ago

I like bump and run which I think is man to man, right?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 


correct

I like this because receivers play offense because they hate getting hit, otherwise they'd be on defense.

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Don't tell Jordy this. He hammers it home pretty good. Donald has also given as good as he has gotten.

Cobb on the other hand- He flopped yesterday simply because there was a group of defenders about 3-4 yards in front of him. He did protect the ball and they were down by 6 at the time. But I was expecting him to break to his right and try and outrun the defenders tot he corner. He fell down without contact and curled up into the fetal position.

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beast
12 years ago

I agree with Pack93z said. But I think this is a tricky subject because really teams can play all man, all zone, CB man and the rest zone, LBers man and the rest zone, CB and OLB zone with S and MLB in man and all sort of different combos... and things like bump and run can be done in ether man or zone coverage when talking about across the NFL...

Such as Packers with Al Harris played bump and run man coverage for years, Bears have been playing bump and run zone coverage with their CBs for years...

And you could have a CB playing in man with a S waiting over the top in case he tries to go deep they'll be double covered.

But if you play in man coverage with the CBs you better make sure you have one of the following
- Safety help over the top
- Some of the best man CBs in the NFL
- All out blitz giving the QB very little to no time to get the ball out
(All out blitz one is normally only used in emergency stop cases, unless you're defense is being run by Greg Williams or someone in the Ryan family...(Buddy Ryan, Rex Ryan or Rob Ryan), though I haven't seen the Ryan family run it lately, Rex might pull it out again with their best CB injured)


Personally I really liked the former system of the Packers DBs, CBs in man coverage (playing bump and run if they're good at it), One Safety (normally Collins) in a deep zone reading the QB and ready to run over to and WR going deep, One Safety (the SS) playing a short zone, helping out the LBers in coverage. LBers in both man or zone coverage depending on what the call is and how many are blitzing...

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beast
12 years ago

correct



Don't tell Jordy this. He hammers it home pretty good. Donald has also given as good as he has gotten.

Cobb on the other hand- He flopped yesterday simply because there was a group of defenders about 3-4 yards in front of him. He did protect the ball and they were down by 6 at the time. But I was expecting him to break to his right and try and outrun the defenders tot he corner. He fell down without contact and curled up into the fetal position.

Originally Posted by: wpr 




Bump and run can be used in ether man or zone. Packers often ran it in CB man coverage while the Bears have often ran it in CB zone coverage.


I don't like saying it, but Nelson got soft in the physical coverage against the Seahawks. And the WR coach told the Saints announces that the WR group wasn't physical enough against the Seahawks. But you're right normally right Nelson is normally willing to be physical, and I'm a bit surprised they've had Jennings blocking for others so much this season... why not have Nelson block and the ball to Jennings or Cobb...


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wpr
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12 years ago

Bump and run can be used in ether man or zone. Packers often ran it in CB man coverage while the Bears have often ran it in CB zone coverage.


I don't like saying it, but Nelson got soft in the physical coverage against the Seahawks. And the WR coach told the Saints announces that the WR group wasn't physical enough against the Seahawks. But you're right normally right Nelson is normally willing to be physical, and I'm a bit surprised they've had Jennings blocking for others so much this season... why not have Nelson block and the ball to Jennings or Cobb...

Originally Posted by: beast 



everyone can have an off day. My comment was solely based on the TD catch were he went through two defenders to score. That is a pretty damn small sample size to be sure.
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Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : *winning MVP
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Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
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packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : ok now for the Pro Bowl Game in Hawaii
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Hey they mentioned that we 3-peted
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
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Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : I think some of his coaches told scouts to stay away
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : the street racing incident+conditioning and motivation problems
beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
beast (10-Feb) : I think the Saints traded up, giving their next year 1st to the Eagles, and then they sucked and Eagles got the 10th overall pick
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : wtf Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Getting Carter and Nolan Smith in the first round in 2023 was pretty darn good
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : i'm not sure who i'm thinking of now
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : oh fuck me i messed that up
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
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Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Eagles traded up for Carter, didn't they?
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TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
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