Zero2Cool
12 years ago
Listening to Randall Cobb and Jermichael Finley, they seemed to take the loss harder than the others I listened to.

Charles Woodson seemed to be confident while yet saying they need to get at it. His reaction to "miscommunication" was telling me they are experiencing a lot of miscommunication back there.

Greg Jennings didn't give any post game interviews and said "Not today.” when they started asking questions.

The reporters pissed off Mike McCarthy by referencing last years defense, lol. When he was asked if he took anything positive away from overcoming the penalties and being in position to the tie the game, his response was ... "ah boy I'd like to answer that truthfully .... ahh uh ah" then a second or two pause then he leans towards the mike and says "we're 0 - 1".

Spend six minutes watching Aaron Rodgers post game interview - link .
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Pack93z
12 years ago
They better have.. if not humbled then at the very least taken a realistic look at where they need to get in terms of a football team.

I thought this before the game, I think the matchup against the Niner's will, big picture, be a blessing for the Packers.

I was hoping they would win, but either way a "set your mind right" type of game.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Yerko
12 years ago
I think the loss humbled *some* of the team (looks at Jarrett Bush's CM3 type comment). I think MM is laying it on the team these few days in between games. I really, really hope that Woodson takes it upon himself to fix any possible miscommunications in the defensive backfield.

Sunday was unacceptable and if the team sees it that way, then I think we see a different team on Thursday night.


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DarkaneRules
12 years ago
Does it seem to any one else that we are a little behind right now? Like still in self scouting mode? It seems like we are not ready in terms of what players they want out on the field and when on both sides of the ball. I would be more concerned if it were not for the talent we DO have. I just think this is a slow start year for us. I hope the other teams in our division give us a chance because I believe they all end up over 500.
Circular Arguments: They are a heck of an annoyance
PackerTraxx
12 years ago
There seems to be no leadership except for Rodgers. But no OL to lead that group, same for receivers(Driver on the bench) and backs. At least I can't see any. The D seems to have no one at all, I think we lost that with Collins.
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zombieslayer
12 years ago

There seems to be no leadership except for Rodgers. But no OL to lead that group, same for receivers(Driver on the bench) and backs. At least I can't see any. The D seems to have no one at all, I think we lost that with Collins.

Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx 



CM3 is an elite player and has as much a shot as anyone to get DPOY. But he's not a leader.

Woodson has leadership abilities, but he didn't seem to use them in that game.

Yes, we need either Woodson to step up and lead the D or someone else to emerge. I am a strong believer in morale and often a leader is needed in a morale situation. Someone needs to step up. I'm not sure who will.

This could be a player problem, but the blame by default goes to the coaching staff (Dom Capers).

Before we can be a team with a shot at winning it all in 2012, we're going to need the D's morale as a unit to go way up. They didn't seem to want to win the game Sunday.
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Pack93z
12 years ago



This could be a player problem, but the blame by default goes to the coaching staff (Dom Capers).

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



To a point I will agree.. that the coaching staff is ultimately responsible.

But go look at the great defensive units of this decade or even the last.. they all had strong on field leadership and presence.

Ravens as example... Ray Lewis & Ed Reed. They are what on DC number 5 or 6 but the defensive level of play remains the same. Aggressive, sound and physical.

Steelers.. albeit they rotate the parts more frequently, they always seem to have a player that anchors the defense emotionally and through on field accountability. Smith on the line.. Greene, Harrison, Lloyd.

Playing defense in football is as much emotional as it is talent.. same can be said for an offensive line to a lesser degree.

You have to have the will, the heart to line up snap after snap, bang heads and want to punish the opponent.

When the Packers played consistent rough and tough defense you had White, Dotson, Brown and Simmons that demanded respect and intensity. Butler to a degree. Eugene probably more than Butler. Newsome would stick people as well. We had some players in recent years that tried to manufacture it, Barnett comes to mind.. Sharper as well.. but it always seems off time and more for show.

Watch someone like Lewis.. it ain't for show. It is the way he is wired.

So no, I can't lay that all at the feet of Capers, because I firmly don't believe the issue to be scheme related for the most part. If anything I am disappointed that someone like Greene hasn't rubbed off on the players on the field... we desperately lack intensity on the field. If I had a Ted complaint.. that would be it, while drafting and acquiring players, they haven't tapped enough guys that bleed intensity. Guys that just are wired differently when they hit the football field.. you look in their eyes and you see hints of craziness or anger.

I firmly believe a guy like Worthy, based on college production, could develop into that type of player eventually.. right now I think he is struggling adapting to the physicality of the game yet. In college he faced a couple teams with NFL caliber offensive lineman.. here it is every snap. Why is another thread.. but he has that makeup to become a fireplug.

You can scheme all you want.. but unless you strike fear or intimidation in the opponent you are already behind. When you allow them to make plays without punishment.. it becomes less and less. We are thin on physical players.. we are thin on fire and emotion.. and it shows on Sundays. No scheme can fix that.

If I am the Packers... I play more of the young bucks in the secondary.. take some lumps in coverage early, but guys like Richardson brought some physicality to their tackles. We so desperately need it.. and if anything that is where I lay the blame on the coaching staff.If anything, Capers plays it safe to often with players.. if guy A is struggling put guy B in along the secondary. I truly believe part of the 2010 success is that we were forced to put hungry aggressive dogs on the field and they struck some intimidation into the opponents. From physical bump coverage to safeties and backers taking shots on players.

Think to yourself.. when is the last time you seen a Packer punish an opponent with a hit in a regular season game? 2011 maybe with Bishops hit on Cam. 2010 I can think of a couple. Last season.. nothing comes to mind. My friends that ain't the scheme. Last time I checked.. Capers didn't wear a helmet.

The other factor that is affect the game, so it is not a Packer issue exclusively.. but the rule changes to the game are neutering the defenses some. Some teams don't care.. Steelers and Ravens.

I hope we see more hits like Williams on Gore on the goal line, although that hit itself did little good on that play.. it did hit tape and guys will see it. On Sunday's... even as minor as it may be overall, the seed is there.

We need more of that.. until then.. we will be completely reliant on scheme and at the mercy of mistakes.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
zombieslayer
12 years ago

To a point I will agree.. that the coaching staff is ultimately responsible.

But go look at the great defensive units of this decade or even the last.. they all had strong on field leadership and presence.

Ravens as example... Ray Lewis & Ed Reed. They are what on DC number 5 or 6 but the defensive level of play remains the same. Aggressive, sound and physical.

Steelers.. albeit they rotate the parts more frequently, they always seem to have a player that anchors the defense emotionally and through on field accountability. Smith on the line.. Greene, Harrison, Lloyd.

Playing defense in football is as much emotional as it is talent.. same can be said for an offensive line to a lesser degree.

You have to have the will, the heart to line up snap after snap, bang heads and want to punish the opponent.

When the Packers played consistent rough and tough defense you had White, Dotson, Brown and Simmons that demanded respect and intensity. Butler to a degree. Eugene probably more than Butler. Newsome would stick people as well. We had some players in recent years that tried to manufacture it, Barnett comes to mind.. Sharper as well.. but it always seems off time and more for show.

Watch someone like Lewis.. it ain't for show. It is the way he is wired.

So no, I can't lay that all at the feet of Capers, because I firmly don't believe the issue to be scheme related for the most part. If anything I am disappointed that someone like Greene hasn't rubbed off on the players on the field... we desperately lack intensity on the field. If I had a Ted complaint.. that would be it, while drafting and acquiring players, they haven't tapped enough guys that bleed intensity. Guys that just are wired differently when they hit the football field.. you look in their eyes and you see hints of craziness or anger.

I firmly believe a guy like Worthy, based on college production, could develop into that type of player eventually.. right now I think he is struggling adapting to the physicality of the game yet. In college he faced a couple teams with NFL caliber offensive lineman.. here it is every snap. Why is another thread.. but he has that makeup to become a fireplug.

You can scheme all you want.. but unless you strike fear or intimidation in the opponent you are already behind. When you allow them to make plays without punishment.. it becomes less and less. We are thin on physical players.. we are thin on fire and emotion.. and it shows on Sundays. No scheme can fix that.

If I am the Packers... I play more of the young bucks in the secondary.. take some lumps in coverage early, but guys like Richardson brought some physicality to their tackles. We so desperately need it.. and if anything that is where I lay the blame on the coaching staff.If anything, Capers plays it safe to often with players.. if guy A is struggling put guy B in along the secondary. I truly believe part of the 2010 success is that we were forced to put hungry aggressive dogs on the field and they struck some intimidation into the opponents. From physical bump coverage to safeties and backers taking shots on players.

Think to yourself.. when is the last time you seen a Packer punish an opponent with a hit in a regular season game? 2011 maybe with Bishops hit on Cam. 2010 I can think of a couple. Last season.. nothing comes to mind. My friends that ain't the scheme. Last time I checked.. Capers didn't wear a helmet.

The other factor that is affect the game, so it is not a Packer issue exclusively.. but the rule changes to the game are neutering the defenses some. Some teams don't care.. Steelers and Ravens.

I hope we see more hits like Williams on Gore on the goal line, although that hit itself did like good on that play.. it did hit tape and guys will see it. On Sunday's... even as minor as it may be overall, the seed is there.

We need more of that.. until then.. we will be completely reliant on scheme and at the mercy of mistakes.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



Another great read by Pack93z.

Yes, I agree with you. I'm just saying that by default, the blame goes to the coaches. A player or players need to step up.

For a player, that player SHOULD be Woodson. He's smart. Everyone knows it. He knows football. Everyone knows it. He needs to start showing some leadership.

The other player I'd like to see lead on the field is Jarret Bush. Yes, the same guy everyone else seems to hate. Bush is NOT a good coverage CB. However, he hits hard and can bring down the most fierce RB. He's a ST leader too. Time for him to step up and start showing some leadership in D.

Worthy I don't know.

CM3 may not have natural leadership abilities, but I don't see why he can't learn them. My leadership abilities were taught. They weren't inherent. CM3 is football smart.

So, thus is still falls back to Coaching. A good Coach can bring leadership abilities out of players. Lombardi did it. As much as I don't like Holmgren, he did it. 🇲🇲 seems to be able to do it on O but not on D. Thus, it still falls on Dom.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
play2win
12 years ago
As long as we finish strong, that is what matters most. I would think this team was humbled, but I hope they learn from their mistakes and start accumulating successes from this point forward.

It is so funny looking at the whole picture. Most of us become enamored with players we've either added, or who have another year's experience in our system. We expect results, almost immediately. But, it doesn't work that way. This particular team is reminding me a bit of that 2010 team. A lot of young players at super important positions. I'll never forget thinking how we were done after the Lions loss that year. The following week we lose a close one to NE. We played well, almost won but didn't. I thought for certain we were toast.

Then we started the improbable run.

An awful lot has to happen to right this ship, but I do think our talent level improved over last season. We shouldn't forget that we are still in recovery mode from the loss of Nick Collins. Bishop being IR before the season even begins did us no favors. Still trying to find that player who will produce like Cullen Jenkins did for us on the line. Maybe we did in fact add that player in the draft, but we won't realize until after he develops further in the system. Strength, conditioning, instruction, practice at the craft... familiarization with the system, knowing your place. All of those things are developed over time.

I think we'll be OK and I'll continue to hope for the best. I'll be thrilled if we are better than 2-2 after week 4.
play2win
12 years ago

To a point I will agree.. that the coaching staff is ultimately responsible.

But go look at the great defensive units of this decade or even the last.. they all had strong on field leadership and presence.

Ravens as example... Ray Lewis & Ed Reed. They are what on DC number 5 or 6 but the defensive level of play remains the same. Aggressive, sound and physical.

Steelers.. albeit they rotate the parts more frequently, they always seem to have a player that anchors the defense emotionally and through on field accountability. Smith on the line.. Greene, Harrison, Lloyd.

Playing defense in football is as much emotional as it is talent.. same can be said for an offensive line to a lesser degree.

You have to have the will, the heart to line up snap after snap, bang heads and want to punish the opponent.

When the Packers played consistent rough and tough defense you had White, Dotson, Brown and Simmons that demanded respect and intensity. Butler to a degree. Eugene probably more than Butler. Newsome would stick people as well. We had some players in recent years that tried to manufacture it, Barnett comes to mind.. Sharper as well.. but it always seems off time and more for show.

Watch someone like Lewis.. it ain't for show. It is the way he is wired.

So no, I can't lay that all at the feet of Capers, because I firmly don't believe the issue to be scheme related for the most part. If anything I am disappointed that someone like Greene hasn't rubbed off on the players on the field... we desperately lack intensity on the field. If I had a Ted complaint.. that would be it, while drafting and acquiring players, they haven't tapped enough guys that bleed intensity. Guys that just are wired differently when they hit the football field.. you look in their eyes and you see hints of craziness or anger.

I firmly believe a guy like Worthy, based on college production, could develop into that type of player eventually.. right now I think he is struggling adapting to the physicality of the game yet. In college he faced a couple teams with NFL caliber offensive lineman.. here it is every snap. Why is another thread.. but he has that makeup to become a fireplug.

You can scheme all you want.. but unless you strike fear or intimidation in the opponent you are already behind. When you allow them to make plays without punishment.. it becomes less and less. We are thin on physical players.. we are thin on fire and emotion.. and it shows on Sundays. No scheme can fix that.

If I am the Packers... I play more of the young bucks in the secondary.. take some lumps in coverage early, but guys like Richardson brought some physicality to their tackles. We so desperately need it.. and if anything that is where I lay the blame on the coaching staff.If anything, Capers plays it safe to often with players.. if guy A is struggling put guy B in along the secondary. I truly believe part of the 2010 success is that we were forced to put hungry aggressive dogs on the field and they struck some intimidation into the opponents. From physical bump coverage to safeties and backers taking shots on players.

Think to yourself.. when is the last time you seen a Packer punish an opponent with a hit in a regular season game? 2011 maybe with Bishops hit on Cam. 2010 I can think of a couple. Last season.. nothing comes to mind. My friends that ain't the scheme. Last time I checked.. Capers didn't wear a helmet.

The other factor that is affect the game, so it is not a Packer issue exclusively.. but the rule changes to the game are neutering the defenses some. Some teams don't care.. Steelers and Ravens.

I hope we see more hits like Williams on Gore on the goal line, although that hit itself did like good on that play.. it did hit tape and guys will see it. On Sunday's... even as minor as it may be overall, the seed is there.

We need more of that.. until then.. we will be completely reliant on scheme and at the mercy of mistakes.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



Great post bro!

Uh, I gotta say right now, we have seen WRs and RBs running free through the middle of our defense for over a year. I think our staff needs to address the gaping hole there in AJ Hawk. I mentioned in another thread the notion of "falling in love with your guys," well, this is the number 1 prime example. We cannot continue to leave a mistake like that out there, uncorrected. If he can't get the job done, replace him with someone who will. The onus to fix this is on both Ted and Mike.

When was the last time you saw AJ Hawk make a game changing play to secure a win, or change the course of a game in our favor? I cannot name one. I like the guy fine, but it appears he is a glaring weakness in our defense. Slow, and not a playmaker. The sooner we address this the better.
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