Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago

Wow. An economic issue we differ 100% on.

Let's take software for instance. They started outsourcing software jobs heavily in 2000. Industry completely crashed in 2002. Didn't recover until 2009 when Americans realized that hey, American software people are actually smarter than anyone else in the world for software and started hiring Americans again. Now once again, it's a good industry to be in because outsourcing isn't as prevalent.

I'm not anti-outsourcing per se. In small amounts, outsourcing actually is a good thing because it creates foreign markets. But the tricky part is you cannot outsource more jobs than you create. When that happens, you get a crash.

Now back to the uniforms - the Olympics are a joke. If we wanted to be realistic, they'd all play nekkid. (History folks will get this; everyone else, it will go over your head).

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



Is there a limit to the number of jobs that can be outsourced? Sure.

Any business model built on "cutting costs" has an inherent limitation. That's true whether the costs are of the salaries of software engineers, the compensation packages of college professors, or the prices of raw materials. And in my opinion, that is why I would never knowingly invest in a company long-term if I believe it's business model is one of cutting costs. Long term success is built upon on how one finds new ways of increasing revenues, not on how one finds ways of squeezing blood from turnips.

If the only reason to outsource is to get "cheap labor," IMO its a bad reason. And those who put their money behind such outsourcing are asking to lose it.

But, frankly, I'd rather those people lose their control over the wealth sooner rather than later. Whether they lose their control to someone in California or someone in Shanghai or someone in Bangalore or someone in Montevideo, I could care less. Stupid companies, stupid investors, have no more right to be insulated from their stupidity just because they happen to be Americans.

But they do, IMO, have the freedom to use their wealth as they wish as long as they have it. Just because I think they're stupid in the way they use it doesn't change that. The perspective that should matter -- the only opinion that should matter -- in the use of a person's wealth is that of that person.

My response to anyone who complains about company X's approach to outsourcing is: (i) don't invest in company X, (ii) don't patronize company X as a customer, and (iii) develop skills so you don't have to work for company X. Because without investors and without customers, company X's business model will go down in flames faster; and with skills, your being affected by the fire will be minimized.

I said "celebrate outsourcing" and I stay with that. If outsourcing is for the right reasons, its a good thing. And if it is for the wrong ones, it will only accelerate the self-adjustment of the market by parting fools and their wealth faster.



And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
Zero2Cool
12 years ago
Wade, do you understand my comment that Americans are screwing Americans over?
UserPostedImage
Zero2Cool
12 years ago
We whine about our salary.
We whine about our working conditions.
We sue when WE hurt ourselves at the workplace.

Government steps in to 'save' the day and WE get institutions like OSHA, safety regulations and get a minimum wage.

Business has to pay their employees more and they have to employ a team of 'safety' personnel to ensure safe working conditions.

And to offset the finances accrued, businesses raise the price of their product and/or service.

Why would a business pay American employee's $7.50/hr and risk being sued over injury when they can have their product produced overseas with less worry of litigation and drastically cheaper labor costs?


A watch manufacturer has decided to produce its new watch in China and USA.
Made in U.S.A. = $50
Made in China = $14.99

Which one are you going to buy?
Which one are the welfare leachers going to buy?


See the vicious cycle are bitching, our greed and our whining produces?





UserPostedImage
+1
dfosterf
12 years ago
Why do we defend "made in the USA", as if that denotes quality upon the product? I'm working retail in my old age, and just about every customer I see is a fat-ass-lazy mother-fucker way over his/her head in the project he/she is planning...and chances are decent that they actually build shit (a very small piece- ironically) - we build shit here-in-Pennsylvania + too stupid to do anything else (OK that's editorializing, lol) I get to load it, as they are incapable of doing so... That project don't look good to me... I do this all day. Made in the USA usually means made by some fat lazy fuck that is pissed at his/her awful job. God-forbid it's a union job...

I envision lean, mean and competent minions in China/elsewhere stuffin' that very cheap cardboard and realize that we are totally fucked as long as American fools cling to the concept of self-entitlement vs. "the man", whatever "man" they got. Fucking snot-nosed-foolish union-backin' IDIOTS- while we are getting our ASS TOTALLY KICKED in the actual marketplace, as defined by your purchases...

Just sayin' [palm] You SAY you want quality, but you PAY for crap, damn the nation, damn the workers, damn the corporations, etc. YOU WANT CHEAP.

AMERICAN PUBLICLY HELD CORPORATIONS WORK FOR THE STOCKHOLDERS. STOCKHOLDERS. NOT YOU. NOT YOU as an employee. GET IT? NOT you. If you don't like it, go own one, and stay private.


You are a LIAR when you have to whip out the wallet. My life's experinces-

If John Deere made it, buy it.
If Honda made it, buy it.
If Toyota made it, buy it.
If Echo made it, buy it.

If it isn't on that list, you better do your research.

I'm willing to listen. You got someone that should be on the list, let me know-- My other list is as follows: (Things I hate)

Wind
Weight
Rust
Springs
Coat-hangars in plastic trash bags
Fat-black-women-that-have-been-drinking at wedding receptions
Zero2Cool
12 years ago

Just sayin' [palm] You SAY you want quality, but you PAY for crap, damn the nation, damn the workers, damn the corporations, etc.

You are a LIAR when you have to whip out the wallet.

Originally Posted by: dfosterf 



Who is the "you" you're referring to or is it referencing Americans in general?
UserPostedImage
dfosterf
12 years ago

Who is the "you" you're referring to or is it referencing Americans in general?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



Americans in general. There is a certain style of speech that I do in fact strive for that makes one think- Is that asshole speaking of me?-

I think H.L. Menken pegged it.

Those companies I named have taken the position that they will not put out an inferior product, no matter what the American consumer seems to be demanding at that place, price and time. Vaunted companies like Mecedes Benz, Stihl, Toro, et.al. have caved to the crap pile and will do so, as they have to survive on the reputation, yet have so many competitive issues (imo).
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago

We whine about our salary.
We whine about our working conditions.
We sue when WE hurt ourselves at the workplace.

Government steps in to 'save' the day and WE get institutions like OSHA, safety regulations and get a minimum wage.

Business has to pay their employees more and they have to employ a team of 'safety' personnel to ensure safe working conditions.

And to offset the finances accrued, businesses raise the price of their product and/or service.

Why would a business pay American employee's $7.50/hr and risk being sued over injury when they can have their product produced overseas with less worry of litigation and drastically cheaper labor costs?


A watch manufacturer has decided to produce its new watch in China and USA.
Made in U.S.A. = $50
Made in China = $14.99

Which one are you going to buy?
Which one are the welfare leachers going to buy?


See the vicious cycle are bitching, our greed and our whining produces?

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



I don't disagree with any of this. So, put me down with your "Americans screwing Americans" hypothesis.

It's part of the reason I'm an anarchist, actually. The amount of damage a greedy individual/company can do on his/her/its own is a lot smaller that same greedy individual/company can do with the government behind him/her/it. Leviathan encourages us to act in ways that insure our lives get more and more solitary, nasty, brutish, and short. Not only can we act like shits, we can wash our hands Pilate fashion and blame it on some vague abstract "them."

To paraphrase Pogo, the enemy is us.

And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
dfosterf
12 years ago
I have a bottom-of-the-line Rolex. It's worth more than I paid for it in 1974. (thousand bucks?) The watch loses time. Fools. My current wife also gave me friggin' Cartier, plus some other fancy piece of shit I can't remember the brand-name of right now. I don't know about the time-keeping, but I'd never buy any. I wear a Wenger-military. It is worth nothing, I reckon. It keeps absolute perfect time, year-in, year out, day in.-day out. Amazes me what impresses some folk.

Weber grills are close to making "my list" of good shit.
Wade
  • Wade
  • Veteran Member
12 years ago

Why do we defend "made in the USA", as if that denotes quality upon the product? I'm working retail in my old age, and just about every customer I see is a fat-ass-lazy mother-fucker way over his/her head in the project he/she is planning...and chances are decent that they actually build shit (a very small piece- ironically) - we build shit here-in-Pennsylvania + too stupid to do anything else (OK that's editorializing, lol) I get to load it, as they are incapable of doing so... That project don't look good to me... I do this all day. Made in the USA usually means made by some fat lazy fuck that is pissed at his/her awful job. God-forbid it's a union job...

I envision lean, mean and competent minions in China/elsewhere stuffin' that very cheap cardboard and realize that we are totally fucked as long as American fools cling to the concept of self-entitlement vs. "the man", whatever "man" they got. Fucking snot-nosed-foolish union-backin' IDIOTS- while we are getting our ASS TOTALLY KICKED in the actual marketplace, as defined by your purchases...

Just sayin' [palm] You SAY you want quality, but you PAY for crap, damn the nation, damn the workers, damn the corporations, etc. YOU WANT CHEAP.

AMERICAN PUBLICLY HELD CORPORATIONS WORK FOR THE STOCKHOLDERS. STOCKHOLDERS. NOT YOU. NOT YOU as an employee. GET IT? NOT you. If you don't like it, go own one, and stay private.


You are a LIAR when you have to whip out the wallet. My life's experinces-

If John Deere made it, buy it.
If Honda made it, buy it.
If Toyota made it, buy it.
If Echo made it, buy it.

If it isn't on that list, you better do your research.

I'm willing to listen. You got someone that should be on the list, let me know-- My other list is as follows: (Things I hate)

Wind
Weight
Rust
Springs
Coat-hangars in plastic trash bags
Fat-black-women-that-have-been-drinking at wedding receptions

Originally Posted by: dfosterf 



My lists:

Buy it: McDonald's french fries; Kohler plumbing fixtures; Maytag appliances in the 20th century; Victorionox luggage; Gerber knives; Buck knives; Rendezvous barbeque; Mayfair railroad crayon games; Pizza Hut thin-crust pizza; Bogart movies.

Do research, otherwise avoid: any "expert", especially those seen on television more than once every five years; college professors, especially those with tenure.

"Hates": most of the rest of the Fortune 500; insurance companies; every cable and satellite provider; any sports reporter under the age of 60 who didn't start in print journalism; any "investigative reporter"; "reality" TV; women with more silicon than Intel; college football and men's basketball coaches outside of Division III; anyone at ESPN other than Hannah Storm and Sage Steele; fat people who wear tight clothes, short shorts, and low cut tops; management jargon; carpet; doing dishes; hemorrhoids.



And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
dfosterf
12 years ago
Gerber knives. That could go on my list.

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