wpr
  • wpr
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12 years ago
I didn't see a separate thread so I decided to post the 3 year old article . (I left off his ST selections.)

It's time to examine who should represent the only non-profit professional franchise in the world on the offensive side of the ball, as well as special-teams positions.

As with the last edition (defense), there will be the standard starters and one backup. I also put a premium on number of games played with the franchise and how they fared in their era, versus how impressive their entire careers were or their raw abilities, such as speed, agility, size and strength. Modern day players might be bigger and stronger and faster, but that will not be held against players of the past.

However, I also am mostly restricting my picks to players in the television era, so that I can personally analyze the player by seeing them in person or watching them on tape. The only exception to this rule is the above-pictured Don Hutson.



QB: Brett Favre is the obvious first choice here, no matter what you think of his prima donna approach to the team in this offseason. He is first in almost every historical category at his position in league history and could be counted on to play every game so one never has to use a backup.

Moreover, his TD:INT ratio is far superior to anyone else with double-digit TDs in team history, despite the perception that he throws so many picks, and despite not having the talent to work with of the other player on the list.



QB: Bart Starr was a consummate champion and one of the greatest managers of the game. He won five championships in seven years, a feat that will likely never be repeated, and was a Super Bowl MVP.



RB: Paul Hornung may have had problems off the field (drinking, womanizing, and gambling that cost him a year of his career), but Lombardi put up with it because the Golden Boy played his best in the biggest games. He was also a quintuple threat, capable of receiving, passing, blocking, and even kicking, as well as running, for scores.



RB: Ahman Green is reluctantly on this list for me, because I found his fumbling completely correctable since it usually happened because he refused to carry the ball in his right arm. (I had often asked for a chance to coach, because I would have broken that left arm and told him "now if you wanna play, you'll use your right!") He also was only with the team five years, and the last was unremarkable.

However, he was the best at his position in all the phases. As a receiver, he and Faulk were in a class by themselves. He was as good as anyone blocking in pass protection. And he ran for speed (among the five fastest) and power, making the Packers literally unstoppable on third or 4th-and-1 for almost two full seasons.



FB: Jim Taylor was a beast, preferring to run over someone than around them. He actually ran for more yards than Hornung in their time together with the team, and could block and catch as well.



FB: William Henderson was a devastating blocker who ranked among the top fullbacks in the league in catching the ball, even being capable of the acrobatic catch. The only reason he did not run for many yards was the offense simply did not make the fullback part of the rushing, but he did well when called upon.



OT: Vince Lombardi called Forrest Gregg, "The greatest player I ever coached." He was a dominating blocker against the run and pass and was quite intimidating, even in his 60s.



OT: Ken Ruettgers had to be talked out of retirement by Mike Holmgren because he was so good at protecting Favre's blindside. He could neutralize the best blitzing linebackers or defensive ends and carve openings for a running game, even if few of his linemates could.



OT: Bob Skoronski was the other tackle that carved openings for the greatest running game of the modern era under Vince Lombardi, and he was a tremendous pass blocker as well. On any other team (out of Gregg's shadow), he would have been a perennial Pro Bowler.



OG: Jerry Kramer, besides being a good writer (read Instant Replay), Kramer carved out the hole for the most famous play in the most famous game in league history: the QB sneak that sealed the Packers' victory in "the Ice Bowl." He was a steady pass blocker and phenomenal run blocker, especially in the open field.



OG: Fuzzy Thurston played the more important backside guard position, and along with Kramer, enabled Lombardi to run the power sweep with pulling guards. This was not a standard skill-set at the time for the position, and without players that could pull it off, Lombardi may not have been recognized as the greatest coach of all time.



OG: Ron Hallstrom was one of the few bright spots in the 1980s on the offensive line. He helped hold down the middle of an otherwise porous line, allowing quarterback Lynn Dickey to make enough big plays to make the offense electric.



C: Larry McCaren was the other bright spot in the line and had the team's longest streak of consecutive starts until Favre broke it. He was so impressive, his peers voted him to the Pro Bowl many times, despite the weakness of the line in general.



C: Frank Winters not only anchored down the middle, but he protected Favre, not only his roommate and friend, but as an enforcer. Teams knew there was a mean—okay, dirty—player that had his teammates' back, and that kept them from taking cheap shots.



TE: Mark Chmura also reluctantly makes this list. He was a hypocrite who would not go to the White House because of Clinton's adultery but was a well-known womanizer, who eventually was caught in the hot tub with his 16-year old babysitter. He also was only with the team for a few years.

However, he was Favre's downfield security blanket and had a knack for getting open when his friend was in trouble. He also could make acrobatic catches and was a tremendous run blocker.



TE: Paul Coffman was my favorite player for years and one of the best two or three receiving tight ends in the game during the '80s. He was sure-handed and could get open as well as anyone I have ever seen. He kept teams from being able to roll coverage to the great wide receivers (off whom he benefited as well, which is why I placed him behind Chmura, despite his longevity) the Packers had.



WR: Sterling Sharpe still has among the most receptions all-time, twice breaking 100 before it was thought an attainable goal. He was the Packers' entire receiving corps for the first three years of Favre's time with the team. He also substituted for their running game, taking the quick pitch and plowing forward for three yards through two to three tacklers.

At the time, he was by far the strongest player ever at his position, and yet had underrated speed. While he would lose focus occasionally and drop passes, he was among the best ever at making the catch below his knees.



WR: James Lofton may have only played about half his career with the Packers and been run out of town for off-field issues regarding charges of sexual assault (for which he was acquitted); however, he could not only make the leaping catch but absorb the hit that sent him heels-over-head. He was a great deep threat and the best at running reverses in his day. He held the NFL record for yards for a few years.



WR: Don Hutson is the only player I have made an exception for on either unit because he changed the game with his abilities. He is the only wide receiver (called an "end" in his time) for whom one could even argue greatest of all-time over Jerry Rice, and his number still stack up with players of the modern, more pass-friendly era.



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wpr
  • wpr
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12 years ago

QB: Brett Favre
RB: Tony Canadeo
FB: Jim Taylor
OT: Forrest Gregg
OT Cal Hubbard
OG: Jerry Kramer
OG: Mike Michalske,
C: Larry McCarren
TE: Paul Coffman
WR: Sterling Sharpe
WR: Don Hutson

There are so many great choices. It is difficult to pass on Blood McNally and Paul Hornung but I had to take Canadeo. I considered leaving Taylor off in order to do so but thought that would be wrong.
QB- how can you go wrong if you take Starr over Favre? Starr has all the championships but Favre the records. (That is why I selected him.) Same day Rodgers will be a contender as well.
Center was another tough position. Johnny Ringo may be better overall but I like McCarren’s play so much. Then here is Frankie Winters. How can you not admire a C with the nickname, “Bag of Donuts”?
WR selecting only 2 means I leave off HoFer James Lofton and Packer record holder Donald Driver.
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Zero2Cool
12 years ago
WR has to be Don Hutson and James Lofton. 😉
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wpr
  • wpr
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12 years ago

WR has to be Don Hutson and James Lofton. ;)

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



sez ewe. I am ok with that. I look at what Sterling meant to the team while he was able to play and he was a larger part of the office than Lofton.
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Wade
  • Wade
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12 years ago
QB: Bart Starr. Sorry, but 5 championships in 7 years trumps everything for me -- Rodgers has a shot, but until someone has at least 3, no one else will ever be in the running.
RB: John Brockington. (I can't contest Canadeo or McNally...but I've never even seen highlight films. Same with Clark Hinkle.)
RB: JIm Taylor. (I don't think of him as a fullback).
OT: Forrest Gregg.
OT: Ken Ruettgers.
OG: Jerry Kramer
OG: Gale Gillingham
C: Larry McCarren
TE: Marv Fleming. (I was really tempted to put Ed West here; 167 games!)
WR: Don Hutson.
WR: James Lofton

DE: Willie Davis.
DE: Reggie White (though his best years were with Philly; Lionel Aldridge for me was a close #3)
DT: Henry Jordan.
DT: Dave Hanner
OLB: Dave Robinson
OLB: Fred Carr
MLB: Ray NItschke
CB: Herb Adderley
CB: Willie Buchanon (sorry, Sir Charles. You're in my top 5 all time favorite Packers, but you're only #3 at the position).
S: Willie Wood.
S: Nick Collins.

P: Donny Anderson. 1967: 61 punts. 13 returned. Total return yardage: 22 yards.
PR: Desmond Howard.
K: Chris Jacke.
KR: Travis Williams. IMO third greatest return man in league history (after Sayers and Hester).

Most potential derailed by injury (offense): Eddie Lee Ivery.
Most potential derailed by injury (defense): Mark D'Onofrio.
Player most under-rated by Packer fans, not named above (offense skill positions): Gerry Ellis (highest yds/attempt in team history). Second place: Tie: Robert Brooks; Donald Driver.
Player most under-rated by Packer fans, not named above (offensive line): Tie: Greg Koch; Ken Bowman.
Player most under-rated by Packer fans, not named above (defense, back 7): Tie: Jim Carter; Ken Ellis.
Player most under-rated by Packer fans, not named above (defensive line): Tie: Robert Brown; Clarence Williams.
Player most over-rated by Packer fans, not named above: (offense skill positions): Dorsey Levens.
Player most over-rated by Packer fans, not named above: (offensive line): Tie: Ron Hallstrom; Frank Winters.
Player most over-rated by Packer fans, not named above (defense, back 7): Darren Sharper.
Player most over-rated by Packer fans, not named above (defensive line): Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila

Biggest asshole in team history: Bruce Clark.

Best coach in history of the universe: Vince Lombardi.




And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2 (NKJV)
zombieslayer
12 years ago
Good to see people give Brett Favre some credit. He was the most hated man in GB a few years back, and although I understand the dislike, what I don't appreciate is when someone can't be objective about someone's skill sets.

Favre SHOULD have been the best QB to ever play the game. Didn't live up to his potential though.

QB - Favre, Starr
RB - Hourning, Taylor
WR - Hutson, Sharpe, Lofton (no way I keep either Sharpe or Lofton off this list, and Hutson is of course arguably the greatest PLAYER to ever play the game. It's Hutson vs Jerry Rice)
TE - Coffman

I'm skipping the OL part because I'm a poor judge at OL, other than who allows sacks.
My man Donald Driver
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(thanks to Pack93z for the pic)
2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
12 years ago

QB: Bart Starr. Sorry, but 5 championships in 7 years trumps everything for me --

Originally Posted by: Wade 



I don't disagree with your thinking. I considered the championships as well.
that said it could be argued that championships are a reflection upon the team as a whole and not the QB. (Especially in the 60's.) Doug Williams is an example.


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Zero2Cool
12 years ago

I don't disagree with your thinking. I considered the championships as well.
that said it could be argued that championships are a reflection upon the team as a whole and not the QB. (Especially in the 60's.) Doug Williams is an example.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



You mention the 60's then Doug Williams who played mainly in the 80's? If you're trying to throw a team that won in spite of the QB, I think Trent Dilfer would be best since he played in an area where passing was more prominent. [aiee]

If I could have Javon Walker ('04) and Don Hutson, it wouldn't matter what QB was throwing the ball!
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wpr
  • wpr
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12 years ago

You mention the 60's then Doug Williams who played mainly in the 80's? If you're trying to throw a team that won in spite of the QB, I think Trent Dilfer would be best since he played in an area where passing was more prominent. [aiee]

If I could have Javon Walker ('04) and Don Hutson, it wouldn't matter what QB was throwing the ball!

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 



You are correct sir.

I was trying to say teams in the 60's probably even the 70's and earlier ran the ball a lot more. I probably should have left my sentence in parenthesis out. It was an after thought and didn't come off clear. Problem with that is there were only 3 Super Bowls in the 60's and Starr was the winning QB for 2 of the 3. Neither he nor Joe Willie Namath were good examples. For the most part the QB's for the winning teams in the 70's were pretty solid as well.

I was looking for both Dilfer and Williams. Didn't see the game Dilfer was in. I guess a better counter argument to my statement would be a team that wins only once may do so with an average QB. A team that wins multiple championships has a pretty good QB running the team.
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Rockmolder
12 years ago
You deserve an ass-whooping for calling KGB one of the most overrated players, Wade. He was teeing off on QBs in his first few years and him not being able to come back strong from that injury in 2008 was one of the reasons for our defense collapsing the way it did. Even with limited playing time in 2007, he was still one of the most important pieces of our pass rushing puzzle.

I like the list. I'm not going to get into a Rodgers/Favre/Starr debate yet again here, so I'll leave that one as it is.

I do feel like Sitton is already making a strong push for third position, although that obviously wasn't the case 3 years ago.
Fan Shout
Zero2Cool (8m) : I see what you did there Mucky
Zero2Cool (8m) : dammit. 3:25pm
Zero2Cool (8m) : Packers Vikings flexed to 3:35pm
Mucky Tundra (16m) : Upon receiving the news about Luke Musgrave, I immediately fell to the ground
Mucky Tundra (16m) : Yeah baby!
Zero2Cool (37m) : LUKE MUSGRAVE PLAYING TONIGHT~!~~~~WOWHOAAOHAOAA yah
Zero2Cool (1h) : I wanna kill new QB's ... blitz the crap out of them.
beast (1h) : Barry seemed to get too conservative against new QBs, Hafley doesn't have that issue
Zero2Cool (2h) : However, we seem to struggle vs new QB's
Zero2Cool (2h) : Should be moot point, cuz Packers should win tonight.
packerfanoutwest (2h) : ok I stand corrected
Zero2Cool (2h) : Ok, yes, you are right. I see that now how they get 7th
Zero2Cool (2h) : 5th - Packers win out, Vikings lose out. Maybe?
beast (2h) : Saying no to the 6th lock.
beast (3h) : No, with the Commanders beating the Eagles, Packers could have a good chance of 6th or 7th unless the win out
Zero2Cool (3h) : I think if Packers win, they are locked 6th with chance for 5th.
beast (3h) : But it doesn't matter, as the Packers win surely win one of their remaining games
beast (3h) : This is not complex, just someone doesn't want to believe reality
beast (3h) : We already have told you... if Packers lose all their games (they won't, but if they did), and Buccaneers and Falcons win all theirs
Zero2Cool (3h) : I posted it in that Packers and 1 seed thread
Zero2Cool (3h) : I literally just said it.
packerfanoutwest (3h) : show us a scenario where Pack don't get in? bet you can't
Zero2Cool (3h) : Falcons, Buccaneers would need to win final two games.
Zero2Cool (3h) : Yes, if they win one of three, they are lock. If they lose out, they can be eliminated.
packerfanoutwest (3h) : as I just said,,gtheyh are in no matter what
Zero2Cool (3h) : Packers should get in. I just hope it's not 7th seed. Feels dirty.
packerfanoutwest (3h) : If packers lose out, no matter what, they are in
packerfanoutwest (3h) : both teams can not male the playoffs....falcon hold the tie breaker
packerfanoutwest (3h) : if bucs win out they win their division
beast (3h) : Fine, Buccaneers and Falcons can get ahead of us
packerfanoutwest (3h) : falcons are already ahead of us
beast (3h) : Packers will get in
beast (3h) : If Packers lose the rest of their games and Falcons win the rest of theirs, they could pass us... but not gonna happen
packerfanoutwest (3h) : they still are in the playoffs
packerfanoutwest (4h) : If Packers lose the remaining games,,,,at 10-7
Zero2Cool (5h) : We can say it. We don't play.
Mucky Tundra (6h) : But to say they are in is looking past the Saints
Mucky Tundra (6h) : That said, their odds are very favorable with a >99% chance of making the playoffs entering this week's games
Mucky Tundra (6h) : Packers are not in and have not clinched a playoff spot.
buckeyepackfan (7h) : Packers are in, they need to keep winning to improve their seed#.
Mucky Tundra (16h) : Getting help would have been nice, but helping ourselves should always be the plan
beast (16h) : Too bad Seahawks couldn't beat Vikings
bboystyle (17h) : We just need to win Monday night and were in
Mucky Tundra (20h) : Or ties, but let's be real here
Mucky Tundra (20h) : Other scenario was Falcons+Rams losses
Mucky Tundra (20h) : Needed a Falcons loss for a Seahawk loss to clinch
buckeyepackfan (20h) : Am I wring in saying if Tge Vikings beat The Seahawks, The Packers clinch?
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : Agreed; you stinks
Zero2Cool (21-Dec) : I'm not beating anyone. I stinks.
Mucky Tundra (21-Dec) : rough injury for tank dell. guy can't catch abreak
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