wils0646
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12 years ago
http://www.nola.com/saints/index.ssf/2012/03/mike_ornsteins_association_wit.html 

Citing an internal NFL memo sent to all 32 teams about the bounty scandal, CBSSports.com reported that Ornstein on at least four occasions pledged rewards of $5,000 to $10,000 to the Saints' bounty pool from 2009 to 2011.

Among the 18,000 documents league investigators examined is an email from Ornstein to Saints' coaches last season in which he pledged money for a knockout blow to Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers before the NFL kickoff game, according to a source familiar with the situation.

That same source insists Ornstein sent the message in jest. Payton reportedly told NFL investigators last week he did not read the email.

Whether the NFL buys either claim remains to be seen. This isn't a court of law. The league can and will rule on its own volition.



If you look back at that game, Rodgers gets thrown down on his first sack - with his head almost getting whipped into the turf. He also takes a shot to the head later in the game. It wouldn't surprise me if "X marked the spot" as Darren Sharper would say, knowing Rodgers' concussion history.

Edit: I was seeing more discussion on the topic on twitter/facebook, and some people said Jonathan Cassilas was repeatedly going after Rodgers' head on the first drive. Dirty, dirty, dirty. Wow. The punishment should be very severe.
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flep
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12 years ago
fine the saints millions and ban them from this years draft.
Formed Merseyside Nighthawks. British Champions 1992. Packer fan for 32 years
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I feel very wrong now!!!!!!!!!
nerdmann
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12 years ago

fine the saints millions and ban them from this years draft.

Originally Posted by: flep 



All the more grotesque when you consider arodge just had two concussions the previous season.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Pack93z
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12 years ago
One could look back to one Charles Martin and his "hit list" to know this is nothing new.

I had to laugh at hearing Ditka talk about playing a clean game, yet he employed and allowed Buddy's defenses to skate along the line of playing clean.

But it doesn't make it any more correct today than of years past.

Now.. if the Saints were definitely targeting Rodgers head, any players head or knees, yes the hammer should fall very hard upon them.

But playing clean and hitting hard within the rule book of the NFL, wagers included between players, well then I am sorry I don't see that is some royal injustice.

That is part of American culture.. wagering against each other in competition.. we do it all the damn time.

Heck, teams have incentives around sacks and picks built right into the contracts. The NFL not so long ago would profit from big hits and glorify players like Cecil, Waters, Lott and Tatum. Put together entire videos of crushing hits.

Sorry.. but that has been and probably will be part of the culture going forward.. sans anyone tying it to taking another player out.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
wpr
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12 years ago

fine the saints millions and ban them from this years draft.

Originally Posted by: flep 



have the forfeit their games too. Dirty buggers.
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PackerTraxx
12 years ago
If they take draft choices away, and want it to mean anything, they need to limit their opportunity to sign free agents also. Otherwise they just redirect money they would have used in the draft to sign free agents.
Why is Jerry Kramer not in the Hall of Fame?
Packers_Finland
12 years ago

If they take draft choices away, and want it to mean anything, they need to limit their opportunity to sign free agents also. Otherwise they just redirect money they would have used in the draft to sign free agents.

Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx 



I think they'll take away some draft picks and hand down a ton of suspensions.
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nerdmann
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12 years ago

One could look back to one Charles Martin and his "hit list" to know this is nothing new.

I had to laugh at hearing Ditka talk about playing a clean game, yet he employed and allowed Buddy's defenses to skate along the line of playing clean.

But it doesn't make it any more correct today than of years past.

Now.. if the Saints were definitely targeting Rodgers head, any players head or knees, yes the hammer should fall very hard upon them.

But playing clean and hitting hard within the rule book of the NFL, wagers included between players, well then I am sorry I don't see that is some royal injustice.

That is part of American culture.. wagering against each other in competition.. we do it all the damn time.

Heck, teams have incentives around sacks and picks built right into the contracts. The NFL not so long ago would profit from big hits and glorify players like Cecil, Waters, Lott and Tatum. Put together entire videos of crushing hits.

Sorry.. but that has been and probably will be part of the culture going forward.. sans anyone tying it to taking another player out.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



The Bears had it coming in a way. They were talking all kinds of shit, making Superbowl Shuffle videos and being general assholes. Not so with Aaron Rodgers. This team does it the right way. Hell, we weren't even getting media coverage this year and we were Superbowl champs on pace to go undefeated. Arodge was hardly the Punky QB.

You can never really justify something like the Charles Martin hit, but at the same time, it's not the same.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
zombieslayer
12 years ago
I'm one of the few people on this board (besides Formo and VR obviously) who was rooting for the Vikings in the '09 CG. Yes, I'm a non-apologetic Favre fan and AP is my favorite non-Packer. (I still like Wallie as my favorite non-Packer of all-time though. Sorry AP, but you're still no Wallie.)

Watching the game, I noticed the hits were especially brutal. Sacking the QB is important as sacks usually end drives and sometimes result in turnovers. Intentionally trying to harm another football player however should result in a ban and a hefty fine.

Now the game has been played and I don't believe in changing the result. However, the former DC of the Saints should be fined heavily and the players who participated should be fined not as heavily but they should be banned for X number of games, to be determined by the commissioner.

As for 🇦🇷, I'm glad he has become an NFL favorite as nasty hits on 🇦🇷 seemed to be tolerated until 2010.
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2010 will be seen as the beginning of the new Packers dynasty. 🇹🇹 🇲🇲 🇦🇷
nerdmann
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12 years ago

I'm one of the few people on this board (besides Formo and VR obviously) who was rooting for the Vikings in the '09 CG. Yes, I'm a non-apologetic Favre fan and AP is my favorite non-Packer. (I still like Wallie as my favorite non-Packer of all-time though. Sorry AP, but you're still no Wallie.)

Watching the game, I noticed the hits were especially brutal. Sacking the QB is important as sacks usually end drives and sometimes result in turnovers. Intentionally trying to harm another football player however should result in a ban and a hefty fine.

Now the game has been played and I don't believe in changing the result. However, the former DC of the Saints should be fined heavily and the players who participated should be fined not as heavily but they should be banned for X number of games, to be determined by the commissioner.

As for 🇦🇷, I'm glad he has become an NFL favorite as nasty hits on 🇦🇷 seemed to be tolerated until 2010.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 



What about trying to damage an entire franchise?
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Pack93z
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12 years ago
Via second source it is confirmed.. Rodgers had a bounty upon him.


The initial March 2 announcement from the league identified Favre and Warner as subjects of a bounty; the internal, confidential (but inevitably leaked) NFL Security memo from that same day said that a bounty had been placed on Rodgers for the 2011 regular-season opener, with Mike Ornstein offering to contribute $5,000 to the pot in an email to Payton. (Wednesday’s announcement from the league doesn’t name Ornstein, but it quotes the email: “PS Greg Williams put me down for $5000 on Rogers  [sic].”)




Full report here.  
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Pack93z
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12 years ago
Who is Mike Ornstein  you ask...



Michael Ornstein is the name to know. As first reported by CBS's Mike Freeman, Ornstein—a close friend and confidant of Sean Payton—Ornstein on at least four occasions pledged his own money to the Saints' defense's bounty fund. In 2009, $10,000 toward knocking an opposing quarterback out of the game. In 2011, two separate contributions to targeting the quarterback. And on at least one other occasion, Ornstein pledged his money in an email to Payton, which spelled out the details of the bounty program.

The NFL knows this because it has that email, a highly incriminating paper trail that makes it impossible for Payton to argue his innocence, or for the Saints to claim the bounty never left the locker room. It might be the single most damaging piece of evidence, based solely on Ornstein's history.

Once upon a time, Ornstein was an NFL executive in charge of marketing. That was until he attempted to defraud the league out of $350,000. Ornstein conspired to submit fraudulent invoices to Los Angeles based manufacturers, pocketing the money and never providing the NFL with the merchandise they were led to believe they had purchased. He pleaded guilty to mail fraud, and served four months home confinement, five years of probation, and paid the NFL $160,000 in restitution.


"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Nonstopdrivel
12 years ago
Four months of home confinement? We should all be so lucky. There are worse fates than being Mr. Mom for a few months.
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Dexter_Sinister
12 years ago

Four months of home confinement? We should all be so lucky. There are worse fates than being Mr. Mom for a few months.

Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel 



That and the 8 mil he won't make this year.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Nonstopdrivel
12 years ago
What? I'm confused. It was Ornstein who was sentenced to house confinement.
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Dexter_Sinister
12 years ago

What? I'm confused. It was Ornstein who was sentenced to house confinement.

Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel 



Then you are not confused. I am.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Nonstopdrivel
12 years ago

Then you are not confused. I am.

Originally Posted by: Dexter_Sinister 


I was just commenting that considering the magnitude of his alleged crimes, Ornstein's punishment seemed quite light to me.

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PackerTraxx
12 years ago

Who is Mike Ornstein  you ask...


Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



Sounds like a pretty good investment:

Spend $350,000 of someone else's money
Pay $160,000 back
Keep $190,0000
Sit home for 4 months
Why is Jerry Kramer not in the Hall of Fame?
PackerTraxx
12 years ago
Just read, now our U.S. Senators are getting involved. They want to know if there should be a law against this. What a crock. It would take 100 times longer and tons of money(taxpayer money) more if the government gets involved. Besides, don't they have more important things to do? If they don't, they shouldn't be there.
Why is Jerry Kramer not in the Hall of Fame?
gbguy20
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12 years ago

Just read, now our U.S. Senators are getting involved. They want to know if there should be a law against this. What a crock. It would take 100 times longer and tons of money(taxpayer money) more if the government gets involved. Besides, don't they have more important things to do? If they don't, they shouldn't be there.

Originally Posted by: PackerTraxx 



to be fair i was irritated reading that as well, until i read this:

“After consulting with Judiciary Committee Chairman Patrick Leahy and Crime Subcommittee Chairman Sheldon Whitehouse, I will convene a hearing to explore the prevalence of this bounty practice and determine whether existing sports bribery laws should be expanded to include a prohibition on bounties.”

and this:

“Let’s be real basic about it here,” Senator Durbin told Howard Fendrich of the Associated Press. “If this activity were taking place off of a sporting field, away from a court, nobody would have a second thought [about whether it's wrong]. ‘You mean, someone paid you to go out and hurt someone?’

both are pretty good points as to why the government is considered getting involved
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