zombieslayer
13 years ago

I don't like those being my only choices. Like I've already tried to point out, Finley gets a lot of double coverage -- especially near the red zone. Jennings is another guy who is given similar respect by defenses. This opens things up for everyone else. Does he benefit from having talent around him? No more than any other player in the offense. Rodgers benefits from the talent around him, too.

As other have pointed out, Finley isn't the first person to struggle with drops. Finley had a few, Jennings had a few, Jordy had a few in the Super Bowl and still reigned in something like 10 catches. I think you are a bit obsessed with his drops. I also think you inflate the impact of "other" factors.

I don't expect you to deviate from your position, but I've pretty much stated my case on Finley.

Originally Posted by: evad04 



In Nerd's defense, he's not the only one concerned about Finley's drops. Yes, everyone seems to have the dropsies on the Packers. But Finley dropped 2 key 3rd downs last week and if I remember correctly, he dropped three total.

Finley sticks out as dropping ones that make me say bad words. It's one thing to drop a first down pass when we got a 20+ point lead. But when we really need someone to be clutch, Finley isn't our guy.

I hope I'm wrong.
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13 years ago

I agree with your last paragraph, to be fair about his overall speed, Finley did drop weight coming into this year(8-10lbs ?), which has made him quicker than his Combine numbers.

Originally Posted by: buckeyepackfan 



He was weighed at 243 at the combine, and is listed at 247 now. And he's coming off a major knee injury. I really doubt he's a bunch faster now. Speed just isn't what sets him apart.
13 years ago

Green Bay clearly has a ton of weapons. I can only speculate, but I'd bet anything in my pockets that if you put Finley on a less talent-laden roster, his production would be higher. Teams would lean on him more than we currently are.

I happen to think that Jordy is a stellar player, but I can't help but think his production has been affected by having Jennings and Finley on the field at the same time.

Originally Posted by: evad04 



So you think that Finley's numbers are held down because we have lots of weapons, but that Jordy's numbers are boosted up because we have lots of weapons? That sounds pretty contradictory.
zombieslayer
13 years ago

So you think that Finley's numbers are held down because we have lots of weapons, but that Jordy's numbers are boosted up because we have lots of weapons? That sounds pretty contradictory.

Originally Posted by: get_louder_at_lambeau 



Actually, what evad was saying makes sense. Gregorious and Finley often get double coverage so Jordy sees single coverage vs the 2nd or 3rd CB. Jordy single-coverage vs the 2nd or 3rd CB, knowing that that 2nd or 3rd CB won't get Safety help, is a mismatch.
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nerdmann
13 years ago
Finley's very good. If he can get over these drops, he's probably worth the money.
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evad04
13 years ago

So you think that Finley's numbers are held down because we have lots of weapons, but that Jordy's numbers are boosted up because we have lots of weapons? That sounds pretty contradictory.

Originally Posted by: get_louder_at_lambeau 


I guess what I'm trying to get across is that they all benefit from having one another around. Put any one of them in an offense where they are the feature (and not one of many weapons) and they probably put up bigger numbers. With regard to Jordy, his increased production this year is likely attributable to his growth as a player. When Finley gets high/low double teams and Greg Jennings is still treated by opposing defenses as our #1, it's a bonus for someone with Jordy's skill set (deceptively fast, great route runner, great at adjusting to tight passing lanes).

edit: I understand the perception that my point of view has a built in contradiction. I'm saying they make each other better, but without each other they'd each put up better numbers. That they take away one another's opportunities but they also create opportunities for each other. You know what I mean, though, right? There are only so many balls that can be thrown.
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evad04
13 years ago

In Nerd's defense, he's not the only one concerned about Finley's drops. Yes, everyone seems to have the dropsies on the Packers. But Finley dropped 2 key 3rd downs last week and if I remember correctly, he dropped three total.

Finley sticks out as dropping ones that make me say bad words. It's one thing to drop a first down pass when we got a 20+ point lead. But when we really need someone to be clutch, Finley isn't our guy.

I hope I'm wrong.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 


Off the top of my head I can't remember another game this season where Finley struggled with the drops. If he has 9 on the year it's entirely plausible that's the case, though.

If he continues to drop it I'll be concerned. He also pulls off some spectacular catches. And as I've now mentioned, which I think others agree with, he adds a kind of Randy Moss-must-be-accounted-for element -- especially in the red zone. No, he's not Randy Moss, but he commands a fair share of double teams and is a matchup nightmare. To that end the comparison exists.

I get that the drops are a concern. To me they haven't risen to the level of fear of some, or the outrage of other folks on Twitter.
William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
13 years ago

I guess what I'm trying to get across is that they all benefit from having one another around. Put any one of them in an offense where they are the feature (and not one of many weapons) and they probably put up bigger numbers. With regard to Jordy, his increased production this year is likely attributable to his growth as a player. When Finley gets high/low double teams and Greg Jennings is still treated by opposing defenses as our #1, it's a bonus for someone with Jordy's skill set (deceptively fast, great route runner, great at adjusting to tight passing lanes).

edit: I understand the perception that my point of view has a built in contradiction. I'm saying they make each other better, but without each other they'd each put up better numbers. That they take away one another's opportunities but they also create opportunities for each other. You know what I mean, though, right? There are only so many balls that can be thrown.

Originally Posted by: evad04 



Yeah, I know what you mean. And I think it's partially valid. Finley does seem to get more attention than Jordy does.

I'm not sure how much longer that will continue as it's going lately, with Jordy outproducing Finley in every statistical category this year and making amazing highlight catches like he did this week. I think you have to think twice about doubling someone who drops as many balls as Finley has lately while letting Jordy beat up on an outmatched CB.

I guess Finley vs. a linebacker is still probably more of a mismatch than Jordy vs. a #2 CB though. Either way, opposing defenses can pick their poison and die a painful, convulsing death. 🖐
evad04
13 years ago



I guess Finley vs. a linebacker is still probably more of a mismatch than Jordy vs. a #2 CB though. Either way, opposing defenses can pick their poison and die a painful, convulsing death. \:d/

Originally Posted by: get_louder_at_lambeau 



True dat. Few offenses in history come to mind that so forcefully required opposing defenses to pick their poison. Just think if Green Bay had a dominating run-blocking offensive line?

Another comment on the drops: it would be one thing if Jones, Finley, Driver (and occasionally Jordy and Jennings) dropped the really tough passes. They don't. They make spectacular grabs. It's disappointing for the easy ones to hit the dirt.
William Henderson didn't have to run people over. His preferred method was levitation.
"I'm a reasonable man, get off my case."
Nonstopdrivel
13 years ago

I would definitely consider paying Finley as the top TE in the NFL. It's not like he's going out there and doing nothing...he's performing very good this year, and I do think he has proven himself.

Originally Posted by: go.pack.go. 


Yeah, but you are a shameless homer and perpetual optimist. You'd pay every Packer on the roster a top salary if you could.

I say pay Finley commensurate with his performance, which is about top 4 or 5 in the league. Include a bunch of performance incentives to guard the team against his attitude and propensity for injury. He has the chance to make a lot of money if he puts out, the team doesn't risk too much on a player whose output is rather streaky.
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Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Tua’s old DC won a Super Bowl Year 1 with Tua’s former backup
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Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : NFL thought it would get more attention week preceding Super Bowl.
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Yes, the Pro Bowl. It was played Sunday before Super Bowl from 2010-2022
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : pro bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : From 2010 to 2022, it was played on the Sunday before the Super Bowl
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : They moved it to the BYE week before Super Bowl several years ago.
packerfanoutwest (10-Feb) : it was always after the SB.....
beast (10-Feb) : Though I stop following pro bowl years ago
beast (10-Feb) : I thought the pro game was before the Super Bowl?
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TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : If I was Philly I would try to end it instead of punting it
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : VICTORY! We have (moral) victory!
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Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : seems to me the 49ers should have traded Aiyuk when they had the chance
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : if the Eagles get it down to the 1, do they Tush Push or give it to Barkley?
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : 49ers have a money problem if they want to sign their QB
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Wait for real? Didn't he just get an extension two years ago?
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : 49ers gonna trade Deebo. Interesting
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Replays always never seem to show the holdings
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : Great throw by Hurts
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Where Carter falls prey to bad off the field influences (to be clear, not saying he'd clip someone though)
Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : Had Carter not gone to Philly were they already had a lot of old college friends, he ends up in a similar spot to Aaron Hernandez
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beast (10-Feb) : Then Carter was street racing, where the other car crashed and people died... and other teams were scared to pick Carter for some reason
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Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : for some reason i'm thinking of a draft where the Eagles where in the mid 20s and a top player fell all the way to them
TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : I think so. I would need to look it up. Think it may have been Carolina's pick.
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Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Jordan Davis was 13th overall
Zero2Cool (10-Feb) : Carter was 9th overall
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TheKanataThrilla (10-Feb) : And we could only wish to have this type of D
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Mucky Tundra (10-Feb) : And with a Pass Rush that might as well be on a milk cartoon and no Jaire
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