wpr
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13 years ago

Why, they didn't pay any dues to get to the promised land? Your analogy sucks. These are special men, even the ones that turn into the TO's. They should be paid very well just to get there, hell the college players should be paid too for as much revenue as they bring in.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Listen. I don't care if you like my opinion or not. It is mine. I earn my paycheck everyday as do hundreds of millions of other people. They are no more special than we are.

You want to be paid a few million dollars a year. Fine go earn it. It is up to the team to decide if the incentive it a difficult one or simply putting on their jock and walking onto the field/court.

Go play with your bees. They don't milk themselves.
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Zero2Cool
13 years ago

Why, they didn't pay any dues to get to the promised land? Your analogy sucks. These are special men, even the ones that turn into the TO's. They should be paid very well just to get there, hell the college players should be paid too for as much revenue as they bring in.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



You're special too, but I doubt you get any perks other than rides from the former Walmart greeter on the short yellow bus to an from work.

Wait, wait, what is a to? How do you turn into a to? Oh, you mean time out? or wait ... turn over?


You should earn your keep, that's just how it should be. College players should get paid, obviously, but not more than veterans, that's absurd. I'm astonished the NFL let that insanity continue for as long as it did. It set a poor precedent to kids.


I still think Ryan Grant gets 60-70 percent of the carries, unless James Starks proves to be more effective by a good margin.
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zombieslayer
13 years ago
Have no idea how we went off topic.

I am predicting though that Grant gets 70+% of the carries this year. Note, I said "this year" and not "this upcoming game vs the Saints."

EDIT: not including QB runs.
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Zero2Cool
13 years ago

Have no idea how we went off topic.

I am predicting though that Grant gets 70+% of the carries this year. Note, I said "this year" and not "this upcoming game vs the Saints."

EDIT: not including QB runs.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 




to be clear, zombieslayer is saying Ryan Grant will get 7 carries to James Starks 1 carry against the New Orleans Saints. Bookmarked.
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DakotaT
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13 years ago

Have no idea how we went off topic.

Originally Posted by: zombieslayer 




Yeah, that would be me.


And WPR, we are not special. We are poor schlub 9 to 5ers.

A pro athlete is a very special person. Their character may be shit, they may not be good people at all; but they are special in that deserve whatever perks some jackass billionaire owner is willing to pay them. To say they deserve a minimum salary + incentives is insulting to them.

Let's just televise rec league ball so middle age men can watch each relive their glory days.
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Zero2Cool
13 years ago

To say they deserve a minimum salary + incentives is insulting to them.

Let's just televise rec league ball so middle age men can watch each relive their glory days.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Wait, who said anything about minimum salary + incentives? There's a fair way to have a contract to compensate the player for past performances and provide incentive to continue positive performances. It's not as cut an dry as "oh to say they deserve minimum salary an incentives is an insult!"
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wpr
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13 years ago
Professional tennis, golf and racing are not special people with unique talents? They are all paid on performance so it is not unheard of in professional sports.

This is not meant to be a billionaire vs millionaire debate. Most of the billionaires are paid for their abilities. (Those that inherit vast fortunes tend to lose much of it if they can not contribute.)

I object to giving away money with no accountability on the recipient's part. No one hands money the the very good college player. Only the elite. They earned the right to get big money by their efforts in college. That was step one. Step to is to keep earning it. It is a simple process.


Back on topic- Grant 12 carries Th night Starks 5. By end of year, Starks 50%, Grant 45%, Green 5%.
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wpr
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13 years ago

Wait, who said anything about minimum salary + incentives? There's a fair way to have a contract to compensate the player for past performances and provide incentive to continue positive performances. It's not as cut an dry as "oh to say they deserve minimum salary an incentives is an insult!"

Originally Posted by: Zero2Cool 




I said it. I intended to say all the players should receive some kind of decent base salary whatever it is. Most likely base on position and years of contribution. Then those that exceed some base performance get bigger pay days. Those that have been mega stars in the past most likely get paid way above the minimum. I never intended to get into this much of a discussion in this particular thread so I did not expound on it.

No disrespect to players was intended. I wouldn't mind seeing the min increased if they top end was a little less.
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DakotaT
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13 years ago


This is not meant to be a billionaire vs millionaire debate. Most of the billionaires are paid for their abilities. (Those that inherit vast fortunes tend to lose much of it if they can not contribute.)

I object to giving away money with no accountability on the recipient's part. No one hands money the the very good college player. Only the elite. They earned the right to get big money by their efforts in college. That was step one. Step to is to keep earning it. It is a simple process.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



See I disagree, just making it to the NFL, means you were a stud ball player that made his college millions. Cha ching, it is payday.

And who exactly are we talking about. Those that dog it in the NFL, don't stay long.

The players got sodomized in the current CBA as well as the last one. They should be able to get as much pay as they can for as little time as they have.

Now I've been dogging poor TNS Grant for some time because I consider him damaged goods. Until he proves otherwise and starts breaking some fricken tackles and maximizing his carries - I'll always dog him. Grant had us over the barrel a few years ago and maximized his earning potential because Brandon Jackson never became the player we thought we drafted. Good for Grant, but he's back to day 1 in proving himself in my opinion and he's no better than the two playing behind him. Hope he shuts me up, but I have my doubts.
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wpr
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13 years ago
You got quite a double standard. If Grant was on a performance based contract he wouldn't get paid millions just because he was a stud in college and is as cute as hell.
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Dexter_Sinister
13 years ago
Grant's best quarter is the second.

Get them tired of chasing Starks around in the 1st and 3rd, then run them over with Grant in the 2nd and 4th.
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DakotaT
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13 years ago

You got quite a double standard. If Grant was on a performance based contract he wouldn't get paid millions just because he was a stud in college and is as cute as hell.

Originally Posted by: wpr 



Double standard my lilly white ass. I already said why Grant got paid. To me Ryan Grant is mediocre at best and by your philosophy is the epidomy of what a minimum based player + incentives should be paid. But he took advantage of Brandon Jackson sucking ass and got paid instead, and that is the way it should be. But now that there is competition breathing down his neck, we'll see what he's made of.
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Dexter_Sinister
13 years ago

Double standard my lilly white ass. I already said why Grant got paid. To me Ryan Grant is mediocre at best and by your philosophy is the epidomy of what a minimum based player + incentives should be paid. But he took advantage of Brandon Jackson sucking ass and got paid instead, and that is the way it should be. But now that there is competition breathing down his neck, we'll see what he's made of.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 


That's weird, I though it was the 1200 yards a year he put up. Not being average.
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nerdmann
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13 years ago

You got quite a double standard. If Grant was on a performance based contract he wouldn't get paid millions just because he was a stud in college and is as cute as hell.

Originally Posted by: wpr 




Grant wasn't a stud in college. "Injuries prevented him from dominating." Then, when he was with the Giants, he got drunk and fell into a glass table, nearly severing nerves in his arm. Yet it's Starks, who really only had one serious injury, albeit at an inopportune time, who everyone around here says is "injury prone." Double standard?
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wpr
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13 years ago

Grant wasn't a stud in college. "Injuries prevented him from dominating." Then, when he was with the Giants, he got drunk and fell into a glass table, nearly severing nerves in his arm. Yet it's Starks, who really only had one serious injury, albeit at an inopportune time, who everyone around here says is "injury prone." Double standard?

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



1. It was a tongue in cheek comment about about Grant being a college stud. A vague reference to something DT had said about college football players being worthy of huge sums of money when they make it to the pros because they played football while in college. Evidently too deep for you to catch. My bad.
2. I have never ever ever called Starks injury prone. So don't bring that around me.
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mi_keys
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13 years ago

Grant wasn't a stud in college. "Injuries prevented him from dominating." Then, when he was with the Giants, he got drunk and fell into a glass table, nearly severing nerves in his arm. Yet it's Starks, who really only had one serious injury, albeit at an inopportune time, who everyone around here says is "injury prone." Double standard?

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Grant missed 3 games his Senior year due to a hamstring injury after playing his entire Sophomore and Junior years. He played in only 5 games his Freshman year but I could find no reference to any injuries that season. Contrast that to Starks who missed his ENTIRE Senior season due to a shoulder injury.

Grant then had his freak club accident where someone ran into him while he was drinking and last year missed the season because of an ankle injury. Starks came in still recovering from a shoulder injury he sustained a year and a half before the start of the season and then had a hamstring injury keep him out for 12 weeks (one of which was a bye).

So if we look at their college careers and their regular season careers in the NFL, look at the number of games they were available for (including those in which they did not play because they were backups) and the games they missed due to injury we come up with the following numbers:

Ryan Grant:

College Games Missed: 3
Professional Games Missed: 32 (two seasons)
Total Games Missed: 35
College Games Available: 46
Professional Games Available: 48 (the other three seasons)
Total Games Available: 94

Missing 27% of his games (35/(35+94))

James Starks:

College Games Missed: 12
Professional Games Missed: 11
Total Games Missed: 23
College Games Available: 36
Professional Games Available: 5
Total Games Available: 41

Missing 36% of his games (23/(23+41))

Of course, you could argue that if they are backups they don't get a chance to play in the game and be hurt so we could pull those games and these numbers don't include the postseason. They also don't take into consideration that 16 of the games Ryan Grant missed were for his club accident--an injury that in no way, shape or form could ever be recreated or re-aggravated on a football field unless Goodell and the owners decide putting glass tables on the pitch would make for some entertaining, and lucrative viewing. The same could not be said about any of the other injuries these two backs suffered from. They also don't take into account the fact that Ryan Grant was healthy enough to play towards the end of the year but could not because of the IR rules and that James Starks was a quarterback his Freshman year at Buffalo where he would have been less likely to get hurt due to the nature of the position.

The bottom line is Ryan Grant has missed a statistically smaller amount of his time as a running back from college to the present than has James Starks. Starks injuries have also been far more recent and more likely to reoccur on a football field. So no, calling Starks injury prone while not labeling Grant as such would not have to be a double standard depending on where you make the cutoff for such distinction.

Sources:

Nfl.com
Profootballreference.com
Wikipedia.org
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Greg C.
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13 years ago
Nice work, mi_keys. You did a way better job answering that than I would have.

Getting back to the main issue, I think it will be like the preseason, at least at the beginning. Grant will start, but Starks will be mixed in a lot, and I think Starks will get the bulk of the third down snaps because he looks better at receiving out of the backfield. If one or the other player stands out, he will get more and more snaps as the season goes on. Alex Green will not get much time early in the season (and may even be inactive for some games) but will start getting some third down snaps as the season goes on.
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