wpr
  • wpr
  • Preferred Member Topic Starter
13 years ago
Ground trio looks rock solid 


When it comes to the proverbial "looks good coming off the bus" routine, the Green Bay Packers running backs will pass the eyeball test like no other.

It's doubtful any team in the National Football League has a trio of running backs with the height, weight and shredded physiques to compare with Ryan Grant, James Starks and rookie Alex Green.

Green Bay won the Super Bowl with smallish Brandon Jackson leading the position in snaps with 622 and squatty John Kuhn finishing second with 278. Starks, who didn't claim featured-back status from Jackson until the start of the playoffs, was third at 206.

The Packers lost Jackson to Cleveland on Thursday in unrestricted free agency, and Kuhn could be gone as well.

Both players maximized their ability. Their contributions were significant.

But it's a new day at the position, and the depth chart of general manager Ted Thompson appears fairly well-stocked.

Grant, 6 feet 1 inch and 224 pounds, returns from a season cut short in the first half of the first game by ankle damage.

Starks (6-2, 222) looks even more ripped than he did as a rookie.

And now they'll be joined by Green (6-0, 224), a third-round draft choice who will be given the chance to assume the third-down duties that had been shared by Jackson and Kuhn.

They give Green Bay not one, not two but three backs possessing the God-given dimensions to slam through the wind and wet of the punishing second half of an NFC North season.

Before the lockout even started, and Green was just a draft-eligible player from Hawaii, coach Mike McCarthy forecast a competition between Grant and Starks.

"Oh, yeah," McCarthy said. "But I'm not looking to run one guy into the ground."

Until Grant's injury, McCarthy had been a one-back guy. The percentage of running-back carries allocated to the featured back was 67.2% for Ahman Green in 2006, 55% for Grant in '07, 83.4% for Grant in '08 and 75.5% for Grant in '09.

McCarthy isn't averse to running the ball. Counting playoffs, his teams in five seasons have run 41.3%, which isn't far removed from the 42.8% for Mike Holmgren in seven seasons and the 42.5% for Mike Sherman in six.

Now Joe Philbin, McCarthy's offensive coordinator since '07, is aiming to make the running plays more efficient. In 20 games, the per-carry averages of Jackson (3.7), Starks (3.8), Kuhn (3.2) and Dimitri Nance (2.6) weren't pretty.

"This is an offense that is always going to utilize its strengths and its best players, but the running game is important," Philbin said. "We've got to do a better job of less 0, 1 and negative (carries). We had a 0 gain or minus 16% of the time. That's too much."

Without Grant, McCarthy lost the downhill dimension and began "to create his running game from the threat of the pass," according to one NFC personnel man. The Packers, Philbin said, were effective rushing using multiple wide receivers with Aaron Rodgers under center and in shotgun.

Take the Super Bowl. On the 11 times that Rodgers settled on a run at the line, Starks gained 52 yards (4.7).

"They weren't going to beat us in the run game; we knew that," Steelers linebackers coach Keith Butler said last month. "But you can't just throw it all the time. Schematically, they were very good at what they were doing. They did some things with motion to try to take advantage of some things. Their run game was very sound."

Assuming Grant returns to full health, which he stated he was in mid-December, the Packers might be able to pound defenses from the I formation on first down.

"He's the starter," said former Packers safety LeRoy Butler, an analyst for JSOnline. "If he's healthy, he can run the stretch-ride, where he picks his hole. He's very good at that. He's a very capable guy."

Five months shy of his 29th birthday, Grant is entering the final year of his contract. Given the short careers of most running backs, it's entirely possible this will be his final season in Green Bay.

"Hungry, competitive," Philbin replied when asked about Grant's anticipated mindset. "We'll probably have to slow him down instead of giving him the green light. That's the kind of guy he is."

In the past, at least, Grant has hit holes harder than Starks. That could change because a hamstring injury limited Starks to merely seven games as a rookie, and a shoulder injury KO'd him for his final collegiate season.

"I'm excited as hell for James Starks," McCarthy said at the combine. "I think he's got a chance to be a great player."

Starks didn't have a fumble or penalty. There were just eight passes thrown to him (no drops), and his hands certainly seem more dependable than Grant's. And his blitz pickup wasn't bad, either.

"I think he's the true future," LeRoy Butler said. "He's an upright runner but he has a very strong lower body. He never goes down."

It's best to wait another season for an evaluation of Starks. His legs were fresh down the stretch when everyone else's were tired.

"He is really strong," an NFC personnel man said. "He just can't make anybody miss. A guy like that is not going to last very long."

Green was billed by scouts as an even more accomplished collegiate receiver than Starks. His one-cut style of running seems a match for the sixth year of the Packers' zone scheme.

In the Warriors' "pistol" offense, Green benefited from huge holes and didn't have a lot of tight-quarters, NFL-type runs. His 4.52-second speed in the 40 is identical to Starks', and he has shown power and surprisingly good feet.

The Western Athletic Conference isn't the NFL, but Green's 2010 averages in rushing (8.2) and receiving (13.4) jumped off the page.

"If he can pick up blitzes, I think he'll be the prototypical third-down back," LeRoy Butler said. "He'll be a home-run hitter, and for the most part they don't have any home-run threat."

In a perfect world, the Packers wanted Jackson back. He was, by far, their best blocker.

Grant's return, a three-back power set and his own philosophy means McCarthy isn't ready to foreclose on the fullback position. Still, it's unlikely he'll keep three, as he has the past two seasons.

If Kuhn returns, his ability on third down and as a ball carrier would give him the edge. Then it would come down to Quinn Johnson, a hammer with indecision in his play, and Korey Hall, a top special-teams player who also could leave in free agency.

"They're all different," Philbin said, referring to the fullbacks. "Overall, they were OK."


UserPostedImage
nerdmann
13 years ago
Two responses to this.
1: Yes, MM's raw percentage of runs to pass is similar to Holmgren's. HOWEVER, what you have to take into consideration is that for Holmy, running screens and shuffle passes were considered part of the running game. Mike McCarthy hasn't had a guy who can run screens very well. Although he has two of them now. Yes I know, Bjack was ok at screens, but I just thought he didn't look natural on them. He was also a little bit slower than these younger guys.
2: Grant is not a "more accomplished" receiver than Starks.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
nyrpack
13 years ago
i think there gonna go with a 2 headed monster approach, grant and then some starks, this will keep both healthy for a long season, it worked here in ny for the giants, i think we should go with the same approach !!
jimmy b.
Dexter_Sinister
13 years ago

Two responses to this.
1: Yes, MM's raw percentage of runs to pass is similar to Holmgren's. HOWEVER, what you have to take into consideration is that for Holmy, running screens and shuffle passes were considered part of the running game. Mike McCarthy hasn't had a guy who can run screens very well. Although he has two of them now. Yes I know, Bjack was ok at screens, but I just thought he didn't look natural on them. He was also a little bit slower than these younger guys.
2: Grant is not a "more accomplished" receiver than Starks.

Originally Posted by: nerdmann 



Grant has caught more passes in his NFL career than Starks has.

Grant had 78 receptions in 2.5 years.
Starks had 5 receptions in 7 games including playoffs.

More accomplished, sure. More talented, probably not.
I want to go out like my Grandpa did. Peacefully in his sleep.
Not screaming in terror like his passengers.
Fan Shout
packerfanoutwest (2h) : damn,he hasn't played since week 2
Mucky Tundra (6h) : poor guy can't catch a break
wpr (7h) : wow. That three different things for the kid.
Zero2Cool (9h) : MarShawn Lloyd has appendicitis according to Matt LaFleur.
Zero2Cool (14-Nov) : He probably plays DB.
Zero2Cool (14-Nov) : I don't even know who that Don is
packerfanoutwest (14-Nov) : What position does Lemon play ?
dfosterf (14-Nov) : I read this am that Don Lemon quit x, so there's that
Zero2Cool (13-Nov) : Seems some are flocking to BlueSky and leaving Tweeter. I wonder if BlueSky allows embeded lists
beast (12-Nov) : He's a review guy
Zero2Cool (12-Nov) : Jordy Nelson is still in the NFL.
Zero2Cool (11-Nov) : Ok, will do.
wpr (11-Nov) : Kevin, donate it to a local food pantry or whatever she wants to do with it. Thanks
wpr (11-Nov) : Kevin,
Zero2Cool (11-Nov) : Wayne, got your girl scout order.
dfosterf (11-Nov) : I believe Zero was being sarcastic
dfosterf (11-Nov) : Due to that rookie kicker Jake Bates that Zero said "he didn't want anyway". 58 yarder to tie the game, 52 yarder to win it. In fairness,
Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : Lions escape with a win
Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : and now Goff looking better
Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : Goff with ANOTHER INT
Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : and now Stroud throwing INTs
Mucky Tundra (11-Nov) : Goff having an ATROCIOUS game
wpr (11-Nov) : Happy birthday Corps. Ever faithful. Thanks dfosterf.
Mucky Tundra (10-Nov) : stiff armed by Baker Mayfield for about 5-7 yards and still managed to get a pass off
Mucky Tundra (10-Nov) : Nick Bosa
wpr (8-Nov) : Jets are Packers (L)East
Zero2Cool (8-Nov) : Jets released K Riley Patterson and signed K Anders Carlson to the practice squad.
wpr (8-Nov) : Thanks guys
Mucky Tundra (7-Nov) : Happy Birthday wpr!
Zero2Cool (7-Nov) : Anders Carlson ... released by 49ers
dfosterf (7-Nov) : Happy Birthday!😊😊😊
wpr (7-Nov) : Thanks Kevin.
Zero2Cool (7-Nov) : Happy Birthday, Wayne! 🎉🎂🥳
beast (7-Nov) : Edge Rushers is the same... it's not the 4-3 vs 3-4 change, it's the Hafley's version of the 4-3... as all 32 teams are actually 4-2
Zero2Cool (6-Nov) : OLB to DE and player requests trade. Yet folks say they are same.
beast (5-Nov) : In other news, the Green Bay Packers have signed Zero2Cool to update their website 😋 jk
beast (5-Nov) : Might just re-sign the kicker we got
beast (5-Nov) : Are there any kickers worth drafting next year?
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Preston Smith for Malik Willis
Mucky Tundra (5-Nov) : Getting a 7th rounder from the Stillers
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : At least we get 7th round pick now!! HELLO NEW KICKER
Mucky Tundra (5-Nov) : Steelers getting a premier lockdown corner!
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Packers are trading edge rusher Preston Smith to the Pittsburgh Steelers, per sources.
Mucky Tundra (5-Nov) : Preston Smith traded to the Steelers!!!!
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : CB Marshon Lattimore to Commanders
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Bears are sending RB Khalil Herbert to the Bengals, per sources.
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : ZaDarius Smith continues his "north" tour.
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Let the Chiefs trade a 5th for him
Zero2Cool (5-Nov) : Nearing 30, large contract, nope.
Martha Careful (5-Nov) : any interest in Marshon Lattimore?
Please sign in to use Fan Shout
2024 Packers Schedule
Friday, Sep 6 @ 7:15 PM
Eagles
Sunday, Sep 15 @ 12:00 PM
COLTS
Sunday, Sep 22 @ 12:00 PM
Titans
Sunday, Sep 29 @ 12:00 PM
VIKINGS
Sunday, Oct 6 @ 3:25 PM
Rams
Sunday, Oct 13 @ 12:00 PM
CARDINALS
Sunday, Oct 20 @ 12:00 PM
TEXANS
Sunday, Oct 27 @ 12:00 PM
Jaguars
Sunday, Nov 3 @ 3:25 PM
LIONS
Sunday, Nov 17 @ 12:00 PM
Bears
Sunday, Nov 24 @ 3:25 PM
49ERS
Thursday, Nov 28 @ 7:20 PM
DOLPHINS
Thursday, Dec 5 @ 7:15 PM
Lions
Sunday, Dec 15 @ 7:20 PM
Seahawks
Monday, Dec 23 @ 7:15 PM
SAINTS
Sunday, Dec 29 @ 12:00 PM
Vikings
Saturday, Jan 4 @ 11:00 PM
BEARS
Recent Topics
2h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

10h / Green Bay Packers Talk / wpr

13-Nov / Around The NFL / Mucky Tundra

12-Nov / Featured Content / Zero2Cool

11-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / beast

11-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / bboystyle

9-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / joepacker

8-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / buckeyepackfan

6-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

6-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Zero2Cool

5-Nov / Green Bay Packers Talk / Mucky Tundra

Copyright © 2006 - 2024 PackersHome.com™. All Rights Reserved.