Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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14 years ago
Personally.. if I as a rider take responsibility and waive any responsibility from the park, I don't see any reason not allow me upon the ride. 



Now.. I don't know the elements of this particular ride.. but there is something to be said for personal responsibility.  His family holds the park not responsible.. so he made a decision... it cost him.






Police: Ride workers knew Iraq vet had no legs



Iraq war veteran Sgt. James T. Hackemer is seen after being awarded a van from proceeds raised by Help Our Military Heroes, March 2011 in Beltsville, Md. (AP/Help Our Military Heroes)



(CBS/AP) 

BATAVIA, N.Y. - Police say the death of a legless Iraq war veteran who was thrown from a roller coaster in upstate New York was an accident but say the man never should have been allowed on the ride and workers violated park policy.



Genesee County Sheriff Gary Maha says signs at the Ride of Steel roller coaster at Darien Lake Theme Park & Resort clearly state riders "must have two legs."




Maha said park operators clearly violated that policy but investigators found no criminal activity, including intent, and they would not face criminal charges. Civil liability could be determined later if a lawsuit is filed, he said.



Sgt. James Hackemer, 29, died Friday when he was thrown from the last -- and second highest -- of three hills on the coaster. He fell about 150 feet and landed on grass.



Video: Tragedy for vet on roller coaster


Maha says Hackemer "didn't have the physical attributes" to hold him in the ride. He says the operators knew he was a double amputee but allowed him aboard anyway.



Hackemer, a father of two from Gowanda, N.Y., lost his right leg below his knee and his left leg at his hip in a roadside bomb explosion while he was deployed in 2008. He suffered two strokes and spent six weeks in a coma, after which he had to relearn to eat and speak. He had been living with his parents.



"It's going to help a little bit that he was happy," his mother, Nancy Hackemer, told The Buffalo News. "We shouldn't have had him for these last three years and four months."



She said the family had recently returned from the Walter Reed Army Medical Center, in Washington, D.C., where her son got "a new set of legs."



"He was assisted onto the ride," she said. "He was doing what he wanted to do."



The park's website describes the Ride of Steel as one of the tallest coasters east of the Mississippi River, climbing 208 feet and reaching speeds in excess of 70 mph.



Amusement park industry consultant Dennis Speigel said two things should be considered when determining whether someone should be allowed on a ride.



"One is rider responsibility and then there is operator responsibility, and those two issues have to homogenize," Speigel said Sunday. "This just seems to me that it was a bad decision on both parts."



Hackemer's relatives have said they don't hold the park responsible for his death.



Although an investigation of the accident is incomplete, Speigel, who is not involved in the probe, wondered whether Hackemer's military service played a role in the decision to allow the ride.



Parks in general are sensitive to the military, he said, with many offering significant discounts and ticket giveaways to service members and their families. As of July 5, since the start of U.S. military operations in Iraq, 32,130 U.S. service members have been wounded in hostile action, according to the Department of Defense's weekly tally.



"Here we have a situation where that individual has seen some pretty incredible things, I would imagine, and if I had to guess, was saying, ]I can ride this. Don't worry about me, I'll be fine.' And then you begin dealing with the forces of physics and it's a whole different situation," said Speigel, a past president of the International Association of Amusement Parks and Attractions, a trade association.



"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
In some ways, the guy was a total dumbass -- at every amusement park I have been to, there are signs clearly posted that say riders must have two legs, and I have seen amputees turned away -- but at least he went out on top. There are worse ways to die.
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Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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14 years ago

In some ways, the guy was a total dumbass -- at every amusement park I have been to, there are signs clearly posted that say riders must have two legs, and I have seen amputees turned away -- but at least he went out on top. There are worse ways to die.

Originally Posted by: Nonstopdrivel 





Just got back from Disney and Seaworld.. I was never told once I couldn't ride a ride.. not once. Been to Great America several times, never been turned away.. so what are you trying to say Rourke?



Now.. there are some rides.. the Manta Ray for example.. I used judgement and passed.



But even then.. personal choice and if your willing to risk it and waive liability.. then damn it.. go for it as long as your endangering no one else that is.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
But you are not wheelchair bound. You also have a prosthetic leg, if I am not mistaken. The people I have seen turned away were above-the-knee double amputees. That makes them too short to stay in the ride. Huge difference.
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Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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14 years ago



She said the family had recently returned from the Walter Reed Army Medical Center, in Washington, D.C., where her son got "a new set of legs."





Do we know he wasn't wearing them?



Either way.. I don't see Mr. Speigel validate his statements and made a general premise that they need two legs.. vague in my opinion.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Nonstopdrivel
14 years ago
Yes, it was recent, which to me indicates that he probably wasn't very adept at their use yet. Obviously, I am just speculating.

I agree with you overall, though. If he wanted to accept responsibility for his actions and take that risk, I have no problem with it. The problem is I highly doubt he signed a waiver, so there will probably still be some civil liability, though I don't think there should be. I think "ride at your own risk," particularly in questionable situations like this, should mean just that. Assuming proper maintenance of the rides and so on.
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Porforis
14 years ago

Personally.. if I as a rider take responsibility and waive any responsibility from the park, I don't see any reason not allow me upon the ride.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



If you fall off and die it's bad publicity for your operation and thus lost revenue. Also, I'm sure they shut the place down for at least a little bit if not a day or more. Also, what about kids that saw a person die? Grown adults seeing their first dead body? What if the falling person strikes a person on the ground and kills them? You fly off and die, you're not the only person that's hurt.
Pack93z
  • Pack93z
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14 years ago

If you fall off and die it's bad publicity for your operation and thus lost revenue. Also, I'm sure they shut the place down for at least a little bit if not a day or more. Also, what about kids that saw a person die? Grown adults seeing their first dead body? What if the falling person strikes a person on the ground and kills them? You fly off and die, you're not the only person that's hurt.

Originally Posted by: Porforis 





So I am to believe that there is more risk to a compromised adult than that of a child greater than x inches?



Because all of the same scenarios listed above would apply the same if not great to a child whom can't in any fashion give their legal consent.



I don't know the makeup of this ride.. but one would have to believe the risks are increased for all riders vs another ride or another activity. So there is some assumed risk in having the ride in the first place.. thus opening yourself as the park to the above circumstances by default.



That said.. I believe there is a certain rule of common sense that should be applied.. but that doesn't cover the cookie cutter approach that was given by the consultant (whom is not actively involved in the accident investigation).. at least in my opinion.
"The oranges are dry; the apples are mealy; and the papayas... I don't know what's going on with the papayas!"
Porforis
14 years ago

So I am to believe that there is more risk to a compromised adult than that of a child greater than x inches?

Because all of the same scenarios listed above would apply the same if not great to a child whom can't in any fashion give their legal consent.

I don't know the makeup of this ride.. but one would have to believe the risks are increased for all riders vs another ride or another activity. So there is some assumed risk in having the ride in the first place.. thus opening yourself as the park to the above circumstances by default.

That said.. I believe there is a certain rule of common sense that should be applied.. but that doesn't cover the cookie cutter approach that was given by the consultant (whom is not actively involved in the accident investigation).. at least in my opinion.

Originally Posted by: Pack93z 



I agree that it absolutely sucks for the amputee in this situation... You can't be expected to live a completely dull life for fear of a freak accident hurting yourself and others. On the other hand, having legs DOES result in being able to be more secure when strapped into a roller coaster seat. Assuming the harnesses are designed to be used with children, I don't see how children wouldn't be dramatically safer that position. If you're going to slide out of a harness, you're going to slide up and out. With legs, you have something to prevent your upper body from sliding out.

That being said, it would be nice to see harnesses that bring amputees to the same level of safety as everyone else when it comes to zipping around at 40MPH strapped to a seat. Rules really do need to be strict and inflexible... If you want to pick and choose when to enforce them based on the spirit behind the rules that's fine, but when tragedy strikes, someone's going to get the blame... Bottom line, these safety rules are in place to protect not just the riders but the businesses from lawsuits and lost revenue... Too bad they can't use this fear of lost revenue to make rides more handicap-accessible and safe.
Formo
14 years ago
So many mixed emotions with this story. I guess the strongest one I have is: He could have died in Iraq, but didn't.. Instead he probably died with a smile on his face having some damn fun. I pray every night that's how I get to go.
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