nerdmann
13 years ago
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/738890-green-bay-packers-is-it-time-to-start-jordy-nelson-over-donald-driver# 

On the field and through his community work, Donald Driver speaks volumes as a leader. The respect he has earned among his teammates and the love he has won from fans speak to Driver's positive and infectious personality. And his career statistics (No. 2 in Green Bay Packers history in receiving yards; No. 4 in TD receptions) speak for themselves.

But, on the cusp of his thirteenth NFL season, it's time to suggest the unspeakable: this is the year to take Donald Driver out of the starting lineup.

There's no doubt his numbers took a nosedive during the 2010 campaign. After a streak of six seasons in which he caught at least 70 balls for over 1,000 yards, Driver only snagged 51 passes for 565 yards last year.

Although this precipitous slide is cause for concern, one school of thought contends that Driver—still a workout warrior who remains highly motivated by his pursuit of Green Bay's all-time receiving records—can indeed bounce back with another sterling season. Driver, after all, has never been short on drive.

Unfortunately, the sobering fact is that once an elite wide receiver's numbers start to fall, they rarely perk back up. With a few superhuman exceptions (Jerry Rice chief among them), wide receivers' productivity levels show little "bounce back" once they fall off the 1,000-yard plateau.

With the help of Pro-Football-Reference.com, let's look at a few recent examples of receivers who had long careers in the NFL that came to rather abrupt ends.

Marvin Harrison (Colts) Another slightly built receiver, Harrison had a string of eight consecutive 1,000-yard seasons from 1999 to 2006. In his injury-shortened 2007 season, he had 247 yards receiving. And then, after one more year in the NFL, Harrison retired.

Rod Smith (Broncos) From 1997-2005, Smith notched 1,000-yard campaigns in eight of those nine seasons. In 2006, his receiving yards fell to 512 yards. He retired after that season.

Tim Brown (Raiders) From 1993-2001, this famous iron man gained 1,000 yards receiving for nine consecutive seasons. He slipped below that mark in the 2002 campaign, and then, after two subsequent years of decline, retired.

Cris Carter (Vikings) From 1993-2000, Carter enjoyed a streak of eight consecutive 1,000-yard seasons. In 2001, his numbers dipped below that line to 871 yards. One year beyond that, Carter retired.

What's particularly telling is the age of these receivers when they fell below the 1,000-yard mark. In 2007, Harrison was 35. In 2006, Smith was 36. In 2002, Brown was 36. In 2001, Carter was 36.

Donald Driver turned 36 in February of this year—four days before the Super Bowl, a game he could not finish because of a high ankle sprain.

Aside from the fact that Driver is on the sharp downside of his career, his relegation to a supporting role is also needed to further develop younger players. Given the uncertainty of James Jones' future in Green Bay, the heir apparent is Jordy Nelson.

It was Nelson, of course, who famously came on in relief after Driver's injury during Super Bowl XLV. In a coming-out party of sorts, Nelson racked up 9 catches for 140 yards and a touchdown—numbers that would have been even higher without a handful of drops.

But even before the Big Game, Nelson was beginning to steal catches from Driver. Looking at the last two games of the regular season and the three postseason games leading up to the Super Bowl, Nelson amassed 18 receptions for 309 yards (17 yards/rec). In those same games, Driver nabbed 15 catches for 170 yards (11 yards/rec).

With the majority of the starts, Driver had more opportunities but Nelson made the most of his time on the field and produced at an impressive and efficient clip. In 2010, Nelson averaged almost 13 yards per reception, while Driver was a shade above 11 yards per catch.

According to Football Outsiders, Driver was targeted 84 times but snared only 51 passes, for a "catch percentage" of 61%. Nelson, meanwhile, was thrown to 64 times and turned 45 of those attempts into catches, good for 70 percent. (Please note that this does not distinguish between legitimate drops by the receiver and poor throws by the quarterback.)

The disparity between the players in 2010 is even more glaring under the light of Football Outsiders' homegrown "DVOA" (Defense-adjusted Value over Average) formula—a "smart" statistic to calculate a player's success in a given situation as compared to the league's average player in that same situation. It's a way of showing a player's "value" per play. Nelson scored a +9.8%, ranking an impressive 22nd in the league. Driver, meanwhile, was -8.7% and 68th in the NFL.

Finally, the most revelatory numbers from 2010 are "yards after catch," a statistic in which Driver once was among the NFL's elite. According to Elias Sports Bureau, the elusive Driver placed 6th in the league in YAC in 2006, and 10th in 2007.

Last season, however, Driver compiled only 180 YAC on his 51 receptions (3.5 YAC on average)—a marked decline. In contrast, Jordy Nelson piled up 257 YAC on 45 receptions (5.7 YAC average) in 2010. These numbers seem to confirm what the eye tells the viewer: Nelson is ready to become a big-time player in the NFL.

The upshot? Based on historical career trajectory of comparable top-flight receivers and the emergence of Nelson as a more impactful player, the odds say that 2011 is the year Donald Driver takes a greatly diminished role in the Packers offense.

The odds say that time has caught up to Driver and that he would serve the Packers best as a revered mentor and a fourth/fifth receiving option (behind Greg Jennings, Jermichael Finley, Nelson, or even rookie Randall Cobb).

The odds say that explosive plays—like last year's signature 61-yard TD romp against the 49ers—will now be far and few between.

Then again, Driver beat the odds when he survived homelessness on the mean streets of Houston to become a decorated prep athlete. Driver beat the odds when he went from being an after-thought 213th pick in the 1999 Draft to a roster spot on the Green Bay Packers.

Driver beat the odds when he went from being a "track guy" with springs in his shoes to landing a sure place in the Green Bay Packers Hall of Fame as one of the most productive—and most popular—players in the franchise's 92-year history.

Maybe Driver will beat the odds again in 2011.

BR wrote:


“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
beast
13 years ago
Easy Answer.... NO!

The WR position rotates a lot, so if Nelson is better than maybe give him more snaps than Driver. But don't take away the starting spot from Driver until it's clear with out a doubt from the regular Packers fan position.

Because it will probably upset Driver and Jones (even if Jones isn't on the team no more) and it will give Nelson the label of starter in his contract year, which would mean he could ask for a little extra money.

A better idea would be kind of do what the Packers did in 2009 with Lee and Finley. I think Lee was the official starter at the start of the season. But Finley was getting more reps, and Mike McCarthy started using more 2 TE sets to open games so they both got some starts and Finley during the season proved to the regular causal Packer fan that he was better and they each got 10 starts.Same way Nelson should have to prove it first...


Last year Regular Season Stats

Donald Driver had 51 catches for 565 yards and 4 TDs

Jordy Nelson had 45 catches for 582 yards and 2 TDs


Nelson was healthy while Driver was injured during the season and was only able to get 17 more yards than Driver. To me that's not earning it though he did have a great end of the season... prove you can do that for the first 4 to 8 games and Mike McCarthy might start opening with 3 WR sets and getting all 3 the start.
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DakotaT
13 years ago
I thought training camp was supposed to decide who are the starters and who are the reserves? Why is nostalgia always such a stickler with some of you guys? If Jorde Nelson is the superior player than he should start, it really is that simple. DD is and always will be a phenominal Packer; but if he thinks he is going to be playing until he's 40 (like he claims) at the WR position then he is really fooling himself. He has been losing speed yearly and it is very noticeable. I really don't like it when players put their teams in these kind of predicaments because they don't know when to check out. I really look at DD as the reason we are probably going to say goodbye to James Jones. If DD were to retire, I'm sure we would pony up a contract for JJ. But I'll go along with you Nostalgia guys for another year, but if there is considerably more dropoff, I won't be in your camp anymore.
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PWT36
13 years ago
DakotaT posted:"I thought training camp was supposed to decide who are the starters and who are the reserves?"

I agree with DakotaT. I will be out at training camp practices every session, that I can get out there. I will observe the Wide receivers , as closely as I can. By the end of August,, I should good idea who the starters are and if Donald Driver has hit" the wall" at his age. This happpens, but speculating in June, is way too early to arrive at that opinion.
Yerko
13 years ago
I am split on this. I have been a huge Jordy Nelson supporter since he has been drafted and enjoy watching him grow in the NFL. I think each year he has taken the field with the Packers he has become better and better (contribute that to playing with a guy like Driver). I sure do think he is ready to take on a "bigger role" in the offense.

I am also part of this "nostalgia camp" when it comes to a player like Driver (I was a huge Kampman fan and was upset when he left, though I shouldn't have been). Driver has gone above and beyond for the Packers organization so its about what he has done on the field and off the field for me. An incredible player and incredible person, who unfortunately is meeting a decline in his career.

If I had to choose, I would say no at this moment because who knows if Driver is going to have a rebound year. Finley is back in the mix, which could possibly free up some wide receivers on the field and a guy like Driver (slower) may benefit from that. I do think that Nelson is going to see a lot more field time this season after his post-season production. He played great football and deserves more. If Driver continues to decline, we are all going to see him gradually sit longer on the sidelines.

Impressive stats to prove a point as well. It seems like mid-30's is the Achilles heel for big time receivers.

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dhpackr
13 years ago
I can see DD becoming the #3 WR for GB, but I also want to point out a few things.

I do not see how a person can compare Nelson to Driver. Two different WR with two different roles on the team. DD has made his living the tough way, getting catches over the middle of the field and breaking tackles for yards, basically a possession WR. Jordy is a guy who stretches a defense in a spread out offensive scheme.

Also with the emergence of J-Finn and a rookie wr/return man with some skills this maybe DD last season whether he likes it or not.

14 seasons and two super bowls wins would be an awesome way to go out.
So if you meet me Have some courtesy, Have some sympathy, and some taste
Use all your well-learned politesse, Or I'll lay your soul to waste
beast
13 years ago

I thought training camp was supposed to decide who are the starters and who are the reserves? Why is nostalgia always such a stickler with some of you guys?

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



You could be talking to me, but I don't think I'm nostalgia. I see myself as being more realist with how the Packers run things (pretty conservatively)

As for training camp, Shields as a rookie beat out Lee, Bush and Underwood for the nickel role, Spitz beat out Wells for the starting C spots but what other starting spots have been changed during training camp?

Finley beat out Lee mid season.

Grant beat out the other RBs mid season.

Rodgers didn't beat out Favre in training camp (well maybe he did the year before but he didn't get the starting role the year before)

Williams didn't beat out Harris in training camp

Bishop didn't beat out Barnett in training camp

Zombo didn't beat out Poppinga in training camp

The starting spots seem to change hands more during the season than they do during training camp. Because the season is where they prove themselves against other teams.


If Jorde Nelson is the superior player than he should start, it really is that simple.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



It's not that simple because this isn't Madden or some other video game where you can look at their stats and call a close race of who is better. During practice they could go back and forth on who's better, and some guys practice great and play poor, while other practice poor and play great.

Like I said if Nelson is clearly with out a doubt better then starting him would be alright.

But if there is a little bit of doubt then go with the guy that has been doing it, which is Driver. And if you want to give Nelson more reps trying to prove himself then that's fine.

Driver could get the start and Nelson could get more snaps if he's slightly better. If Nelson is clearly better then he has a case to become starter. But only 17 yards more than Driver when Driver had an injured year and should of sat more games out to rest than he did? ... That's not clearly better to me...

And yes Nelson played better at the end... but he didn't prove he can start the season that way... YET... hopefully he does this season.

I really look at DD as the reason we are probably going to say goodbye to James Jones. If DD were to retire, I'm sure we would pony up a contract for JJ.

Originally Posted by: DakotaT 



Sadly I agree with you... and I think they resigned Driver too early, they should of wanted until the end of the season... and maybe got him cheaper because of the injuries... also if Driver would of sat and rested his injuries Jones would of gotten the starts and maybe been happier and willing to take a bit less money.

O well what's done is done. Just have to wait and see which FAs they sign.



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DoddPower
13 years ago
I don't think Nelson starting will be an issue after a few regular season games. Call me a pessimist, but I see Driver getting hurt again early forcing Nelson into the starting lineup. Nelson will run away with it and Driver will at least take a step down the depth chart when and if he returns. So I would guess one should let him "start," but I wouldn't imagine it taking too long until Nelson is the actual starter.

nerdmann
13 years ago
1: When Ted Thompson came in, he had to clean house of all the "Favre Loyalists." These were the guys (William Henderson for instance) who would follow Favre instead of the coaches. For instance, whenever Favre wanted to freelance or call his own plays. This is both on the field and in the locker room.
Favre wanted Ted Thompson to sign Randy Moss and mortgage the future to make an immediate run. Ted Thompson didn't want to do that. What happened was that people started to talk shit that Ted Thompson didn't respect the veterans and was cutting them loose unceremoniously to go with a youth movement. Since then the Pack has always been careful to show respect to veterans. Which is one reason DD is still the "starter." This is also why they asked Tauscher to stay in GB and travel with the team last year. And the reason they've showed so much deference to Al Harris. Although I do think they are disrespecting Nick Barnett. But Barnett has put himself in that position.
So from this standpoint, I think they will let DD be the "starter," while continuing to work Jordy in there more and more.

2: I think they will also try to keep DD on a pitch count, to keep those knees fresh. Remember, he had them cleaned out before the season last year. DD seems to be getting to that point in his career, where he's hitting the wall. I think they will conserve his snaps to keep him healthy.
“Winning is not a sometime thing, it is an all the time thing. You don't do things right once in a while…you do them right all the time.”
Greg C.
13 years ago
There are lots of thoughtful responses here. I don't strongly disagree with any of them, no matter which side of the fence they are on. I think Driver is still the starter unless he shows a major decline in training camp. The more likely scenario is that injuries will force the issue. The way receivers are rotated in Mike McCarthy's offense, I really don't think it's that big a deal who starts. If Driver's not getting open and the other guys are, he will spend less time on the field.
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