i'm just not convinced.· Page 3

IronMan
Veteran Member

14 years ago

Right now we are a top 5 team in the NFC. The Vikings are the class of the division until we prove otherwise. I agree with Greg C. when he said the two Vikings games were the most disappointing. Favre was sacked 0 times, while Rodgers was sacked 14 times. Pathetic. Regardless of who the quarterback is for the Vikings this year, I want to see him on his ass multiple times.

Nonstopdrivel
Preferred Member

14 years ago

#22

Damn Zombieslayer and his statistics. Doesn't he realize they're just numbers and don't translate to real performance on the field?

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

14 years ago

#23

"IronMan" wrote:

14 plus sack difference we were still "mathematically" in each game going into the 4th quarter, but blew it.

Rockmolder
Honored Member

14 years ago

#24

"IronMan" wrote:

And since then, we did nothing about our OLB situation and our O-line shouldn't look that different.

The Vikings haven't changed a whole lot, either, but did some small things and were a better team that us already, last year. There's really no reason for them to kick our behind twice last year. Or three times, if it's necessary.

The defense hasn't proven a whole lot so far. We can stop the run, which is nearly obsolete in the league right now, but get BBQ'd against the pass against a good QB. We're coming back with the same two guys at OLB as last year. Our D-line will be Jenkins - Raji - Pickett, the way it looks now. Raji can collapse the pocket a bit, but Pickett won't rush the passer, he'll just eat up blocks.

Much like Jolly did last year.

I very much doubt that Raji at NT will make our pass rush that much more dominant.

And I'm not counting on Neal for an immediate impact. DTs and DEs very rarely come into the league and have a big rookie season.

I like the addition of a guy like Burnett and getting some guys back at CB, but that shouldn't be what we'd have to depend on. Even with Woodson - Williams - Bush we had a trio that was on par with a lot of teams. Given, the drop off between nr. 2 and 3 was somewhat big, but you can make up for these things with a good pass rush. The 2007 Giants had a horrible CB group, but dominated the LoS (on both sides).

porky88
Veteran Member

14 years ago

#25

You have to take into account improving from within. Just because you don't change players, doesn't mean you don't get better. The 2007 Packers added Frank Walker, but ended up hosting the NFC Title game. Meanwhile, the 2007 Bears made zero changes and they missed the playoffs after going to the Super Bowl the year prior. Nobody will convince me Frank Walker was the reason for the five game swing.

The Packers have a lot of upside at key positions. Whether or not they improve enough from within will determine how far they go. You look up and down the team, there are plenty of players that should get better and not that many that will regress.

http://www.row12.com/

Zero2Cool
Elite Member

14 years ago

#26

"porky88" wrote:

Frank Walker is the key for the five win swing, because the other 52 men saw their future if they slacked off and that's what lit a fire under their asses.

Rockmolder
Honored Member

14 years ago

#27

"porky88" wrote:

Of course. Especially on a team like ours, we need our guys to make a leap from year 1 to 2. You can't survive without that when you sign the amount of FAs we do.

It's just that you have Brad Jones and Clay Matthews at OLB. Jones looks like someone who has to be 280 lbs of nearly pure muscle before he can take on a RT. And that will get to your speed.

Now, I'd be thrilled if he went from 240 to 250 in the weigth room, got stronger, learned some moves from Greene and gets after the QB this year, but I think that he'll still be a rather onesided guy. And someone who's not that amazing at those speed rushes, either.

And the same goes for Clay. Get a HB or TE to chip him, get him off his route and let the LT engage him. The battle is pretty much done from there. I think that the fact that teams had to double Cullen Jenkins had a lot to do with his outstanding rookie season, as well.

I found these numbers pretty interesting. Our OLBs got 1 sack between them on bullrushes. Matthews; 1, Jones; 0.

We really have a finesse rushing corps out there and that's just not always going to work. We're losing the battle against teams with beefy O-lines like Minnesota, just imagine what an athlete-filled zone team would do against us.

Greg C.
Registered

14 years ago

#28

I found these numbers pretty interesting. Our OLBs got 1 sack between them on bullrushes. Matthews; 1, Jones; 0.

We really have a finesse rushing corps out there and that's just not always going to work. We're losing the battle against teams with beefy O-lines like Minnesota, just imagine what an athlete-filled zone team would do against us.

"Rockmolder" wrote:

I think your standard is unrealistic. OLB's are almost always speed rushers because they need to be smaller guys to provide pass coverage. They are not likely to push a 340-pound OT into the QB's lap very often.

I'm not sure what you are getting at with that last comment about "an athlete-filled zone team." That seems to contradict your statement about our OLB's not rushing the pass rusher well against bigger O-lines.

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Rockmolder
Honored Member

14 years ago

#29

"Greg C." wrote:

"Rockmolder" wrote:

I get your point. Thing is, our guys are worse than most in the bullrush and strength department.

Take a look at the succesful 3-4 teams.

James Harrison and Lamarr Woodley are power guys. Woodley just runs through you at 265 and might even be a bit of a one trick poney. He's the other extreme in this thing. Expecting both our OLBs to be like James Harrison is wishful thinking, but he's a complete package. You can see him run LTs into the QB on one play and run around them the next.

The Cowboys have a complete package in Ware, while Anthony Spencer can get to the QB in multiple ways, as well. He won't always be pushing RTs into the QB, but he can hold his own and uses a variety of moves to get past blockers.

Terrel Suggs, complete package. On the other side they have Jarret Johnson, who plays like a dump truck. There's no speed involved, just dominating the O-line physically. But he's quite a mediocre player.

And what I mean with that last line is we're already struggling to get to the QB against a team like the Vikings, who have two 350 lbs tackles who kick slide about a well as high school OTs. Matthews couldn't get around McKinnie who struggled in pass protection quite a bit last year. What if you run into a team that plays a more finesse kind of O-line theory? A team that uses lighter linemen who are more agile. I don't think that we'd be able to get any kind of pressure on the Panthers, for instance. Not from the outside, at least.

RainX
Member

14 years ago

#30

If we didn't have an offensive line that was basically a turn-style considering both our starting tackles were out at the time, we beat Minnesota at least once last year.

My biggest concern right now is probably our pass rush and secondary depth. Jones is going to have to continue to develop to keep double teams off of Matthews since he's our only legitimate proven sack threat at the moment. With Harris likely starting the year out on the PUP, Williams remaining unsigned, and now Underwood's potential legal troubles, we might potentially be relying heavily on guys like Patrick Lee to hopefully stay healthy and finally contribute to the football team. Woodson can't do it by himself.

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Martha Careful (4h) : 3 guys open

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Martha Careful (4h) : bad play called against blitz

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Mucky Tundra (4h) : Probably is

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Martha Careful (4h) : and that play FB screwed up

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Martha Careful (4h) : they need 6.. only up 10

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Mucky Tundra (4h) : Speaks volumes that they don't trust Goff there though

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Mucky Tundra (4h) : got too excited at the Lions misfortune

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